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    Differential backlash / vibration

    Hi all,

    On jacking a rear wheel up, I can rotate it to a small extent without the propshaft turning. Impossible to measure the radial movement, but it doesn't seem a good thing to me (the nearest knowledge I have of this type of assy is a Honda Goldwing shaft drive so I'm a bit clueless!). When I put the car in reverse, I get a clunk when engaging the clutch, and also when I get to 4,500rpm & beyond, some fairly strong vibration. The UJ's seem OK to me so am I looking at a diff rebuild here?

    Winter is coming after all and what else can I do with my time.....?

    Cheers

    Mark
    Sometimes you just need the 2 wheels!

    #2
    Don't rush into this Mark - the clunk and vibration could be connected and not necessarily the diff, although not impossible. Check it the other way round and have the car sitting on its wheels on a set of ramps then turn the propshaft to check for play in the system paying particular attention to the driveshaft joints, and ANY play radially or side to side on the front prop UJ, a frequent cause of vibration.

    Excessive backlash in the diff is very frequently the sun gear thrusts, which can be swapped without a total diff strip (I do them with the CWP and diff carrier undisturbed - just pop the Mills pin that secures the diff crosspin, knock the crosspin out, pull out the planets and you can pull out the sun gears to change the thrusts)

    Russ

    Comment


      #3
      Mark - as you're close to the source, go and see Neil at Chard Engineering in St. Philips. What he doesn't know about drivetrains isnt worth knowing. He'll re-inforce what Russ just wrote and sort the job out for you at a price that isn't too grim.
      Richard
      Mabel is a white 1972 Mk1½, TV8, Mo/d.

      Comment


        #4
        movement happens, does it whine? if not top up the fluid and leave it.

        Clonk on engaging the clutch in reverse could easily be a shagged out UJ, there are 6 of them! 2 off them are hidden and ideally need the outer driver shaft pulling to get access to them.

        4500 strong vibration in top gear? cruising, accelerating, wanging it up through the gears?

        is the vibration related to engine speed i.e. 4500 rpm or roadspeed (i.e. 90 in top)
        Stags and Range Rover Classics - I must be a loony

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks guys, great info as usual. The vibration occurs from 4500 onwards and through to the redline as I'm wanging it through the gears. I could just not wang it through the gears but what's the fun in that.....?
          Sometimes you just need the 2 wheels!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Mark Serj View Post
            The vibration occurs from 4500 onwards and through to the redline
            Propshaft.
            as far as I am aware the Stag has that horrible rubber damping internally.

            It's one of the most stupid things they ever put on a car, as the misalignement is inevitably torque related to RPM.

            Oh & btw excessive play in axles invariably comes from the POS fibre sunwheel thrusts which they fitted post 1972-3.
            There are NO bronze/brass ones available.
            I never knew why they fitted that crap.
            Last edited by Guest; 11 August 2017, 09:13.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by down_the_plug_hole View Post
              I never knew why they fitted that crap.
              Probably because it was cheaper...?

              Comment


                #8
                I always wondered how you weld something as substantial as a propshaft without burning away the rubber lining so it starts to flap inside, then tear loose over the years.... seems they don't...

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think a visit to Neil at Chard Engineering in St. Philips. will be on the cards over the Winter. Thanks for that reminder Rich. Having to type slowly due to fingers crossed as Stag is at MOT.....
                  Sometimes you just need the 2 wheels!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I thought it was only the auto props that had the rubber damper section!

                    The Manual props / certainly the Man o/d props are solid

                    My car vibrates when I get it the rong side of 100mph (on the autobahn naturally )

                    But and this is a big BUT if yours is vibrating at 4500 in all gears as you give it some beans then I would say the prop is nothing to do with that!

                    Check cheapo nasty not fit for purpose cotton reel mounts on the gearbox, stuff on ebay seems to be made from soft cheese
                    Check that the crank damper pulley is not dead! there is a rubber section in there too
                    Check that the viscous fan bearing is not dead and the fan is locked up solid
                    If all that is ok then maybe you have a balance issue with the flywheel / clutch arrangement

                    btw wanging it through 2 and 3 gears right up to the red line makes the little hairs stand up on my neck, I tend not to do it in 4th though
                    Stags and Range Rover Classics - I must be a loony

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Cotton reels are new - but could be a lactose product I guess
                      Crank damper pulley - ahem...what is that please?
                      Viscous fan is new
                      Did the vibration bit with previous and recent replacement motors

                      Trouble is the wanging up to the redline is a bit addictive......
                      Sometimes you just need the 2 wheels!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        totally with you re the addiction Smiles / Gallon

                        Cotton Reels if from ebay could be ****, I also replaced the crossmember/body mounts with purple poly. This secured the crossmember much better to the car and did away with lots of odd vibration

                        Crank damper is the front pulley arrangement on the engine, remove it and look at the back (the side that faces the timing cover) and you will see a ring of rubber. Fix the cross member first

                        re the viscous fan it does turn when the engine if off doesnt it? and when wiggling it you can feel no play at all in the centre bearing? New doesnt always mean good Also did you torque the crank bolt up real tight?

                        So what carried over from the old motor to the one you have currently? Pulley, Flywheel, Clutch cover?
                        Stags and Range Rover Classics - I must be a loony

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I'll have to check the receipt stash Rich and see what cotton reels & spacers it had fitted by PO, but I think they are Paddocks.

                          Ahh, THAT rubber element in the crank pulley - now I understand. Previous motor that had same vibration had a different pulley wheel to this one, so that 'should' eliminate that.

                          The Viscous coupling turns OK, and has no slack in it and I torqued the pulley bolt up to spec.

                          New motor has a new clutch and box as well as flywheel, and vibe is identical so it's in the drivetrain me thinks.
                          Sometimes you just need the 2 wheels!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            but if it happens in each gear and is engine speed related and not road speed related then the vibration source must exists forwards of the gearbox output shaft and all its gubbins and wizardry.

                            Based on what you mention in your last post I might double check the crossmember mounts, the tophat rubbers and washers etc that secure it to the floor. Cheap bits first

                            does the clutch judder at all on take off i.e. is the gearbox 100% aligned to the engine with dowel bolts etc
                            Stags and Range Rover Classics - I must be a loony

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by richardthestag View Post

                              The Manual props / certainly the Man o/d props are solid

                              My car vibrates when I get it the rong side of 100mph (on the autobahn naturally )
                              Well I read that evening lecture from one of the designers of the stag the other day, and he did say the propshaft was rubbish on the Stag.
                              It's way too long and unsupported.
                              It was a conscious decision not to instal a centre bearing on it like they did on the Jags.
                              Misalignment can only happen one way, vertical, horizontal or longitudinal.

                              When you look at the way the axle is not properly solidly mounted in the body, the engine and gearbox are not either horizontally or vertically very solid either, then the potential for misaligment is enormous.

                              It's normal when you have a car that has neither a proper front or rear subframe.
                              The whole design dates from the same era as the Jaguar E type, and look at what they did there!
                              It's neither fish nor fowl, front reynolds bicycle frame, centre is body unitary- sort of, the rear is then mounted on a subframe with a track that is way too narrow (rear should be wider than front for stability!)
                              WTF!
                              No wonder it doesn't go round corners!

                              Triumph made the 2000 with the same nonsense and a narrow track, cos it was derived from the Vanguard 6 live axle car.
                              (same engine, same basic axle, same length).
                              Are you suprised a car from 1961 behaves like something from 1955 and the Stag just recycled most of it?
                              Last edited by Guest; 11 August 2017, 13:11.

                              Comment

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