Quality ?

[Jeff]

Of all the cars I've owned and many BL amongst them, I have never had and never will have a Vauxhall. Mainly from choice but also fate. Some people swear by them some at them, although they seem to be doing something right at the moment.

Allegros, Maxis and Marinas were always the cheapest at the auction with the occasional Escort and Cortina.

Jeff.

[edd]

I think it's very easy to point fingers ( especially at the working man ) IMO We need to remember that England was building cars when the japs were still riding about on donkeys. And as pointed out with machinery made before the 1st world war and instead of reinvestment any profit's that were made were stuck in overseas accounts. So with the lack of funding,moral,and pride in the workplace no one can be suprised the guy's are looking at the bird on the shop floor or the t**s on page three.Where as the Germans were given up to date machineary and a sence of pride and good money. The Jap's were programmed and regimented and became the first human robots. So if we such c**p why are the top F1 research and devolpment stables based in England?? Working on my therory if we give our soldiers bow's and arrows to fight with they will be cr*p too. Sorry I forgot we do Some thing's never change

This is the point I was trying to make. The skilled workforce was available but investment was not. Having to cart a bare metal shell across the road in all weather to the paint shop was not uncommon and sometimes the paint could fall off in sheets. The laid back nature followed through to the 80s too not just the 70s how many of us know people working in rolls Royce or aerospace where every other job was a job on the side ( foreigner ) and sleeping through night shifts. The Falklands paid the bill. We are still leaders in lots of industries including green energy.
Porsche a few years ago made more money on the stock market than it sold in cars like most business get the finance sorted and the rest will follow
Edd

[DJT]

I don't doubt your arguements, but the film was meant, I believe, to point out that little, avoidable, errors by people make a big difference; fatal in the case of the film. I still see it all the time in the oil industry where money seems to be no object. A current example where I am at present. A couple of years ago this platform lent a turbine lifting frame to another platform who had the same setup. When we asked for it back a few months later, they couldn't locate it. Many discussions offshore and onshore resulted in them ordering a new frame for us - £30,000! This was subsequently delivered to our storage facility outside Aberdeen where it sat for over a year and nobody bothered to inspect it. I was asked to call it out last week and it arrived yesterday. Our guys unpacked it and it doesn't fit. Somebody ordered the wrong model! So here we are, with £30k down the pan, and unable to change out a water injection turbine. The downtime will ultimately cost hundreds of thousands, all because someone selected the wrong model of frame, and nobody was delegated to inspect it when it was delivered. Will anyone be censured? No. OK, unlike in the film, nobody has died, but it still demonstrates the effect of personal mistakes.

[andy p]

I wonder how these cars have lasted this long after watching that

[Bob Heritage]

This is a spoof film and obviously Leyland gave their permission and set themselves up as the fallguys, it could apply to any of the manufacturers at the time and probably highlights the effects that the trade unions held over them. In todays market that would never be allowed to be published as it's all about one upmanship. But there is a lesson in there.

[andy p]

no but I can see a picture of how things went wrong quite easy from watching that, it would not happen in these days

[edd]

I don't doubt your arguements, but the film was meant, I believe, to point out that little, avoidable, errors by people make a big difference; fatal in the case of the film. I still see it all the time in the oil industry where money seems to be no object. A current example where I am at present. A couple of years ago this platform lent a turbine lifting frame to another platform who had the same setup. When we asked for it back a few months later, they couldn't locate it. Many discussions offshore and onshore resulted in them ordering a new frame for us - £30,000! This was subsequently delivered to our storage facility outside Aberdeen where it sat for over a year and nobody bothered to inspect it. I was asked to call it out last week and it arrived yesterday. Our guys unpacked it and it doesn't fit. Somebody ordered the wrong model! So here we are, with £30k down the pan, and unable to change out a water injection turbine. The downtime will ultimately cost hundreds of thousands, all because someone selected the wrong model of frame, and nobody was delegated to inspect it when it was delivered. Will anyone be censured? No. OK, unlike in the film, nobody has died, but it still demonstrates the effect of personal mistakes.

I think if you watch that film every car would be a death trap. i agree with the sentiment of the film . I like watching air investigation recently that involved a faulty fuel gauge on a pasenger aircraft , it was replaced with a slot in replacement , trouble is the same slot fits two types of aircraft with different capacities . The part numbers ignored as only one digit was a miss . So the pilot thinks he has a full tank and he runs out of fuel mid flight killing nearly all on board. Misstakes will happen its just trying to limit them .Even NASA had no clue about o rings and exposure to cold , what a joke that was.
Edd

[Seaking]

So True and is still going on today.

I think it's very easy to point fingers ( especially at the working man ) IMO We need to remember that England was building cars when the japs were still riding about on donkeys. And as pointed out with machinery made before the 1st world war and instead of reinvestment any profit's that were made were stuck in overseas accounts. So with the lack of funding,moral,and pride in the workplace no one can be suprised the guy's are looking at the bird on the shop floor or the t**s on page three.Where as the Germans were given up to date machineary and a sence of pride and good money. The Jap's were programmed and regimented and became the first human robots. So if we such c**p why are the top F1 research and devolpment stables based in England?? Working on my therory if we give our soldiers bow's and arrows to fight with they will be cr*p too. Sorry I forgot we do Some thing's never change

[jleyton]

This is a spoof film and obviously Leyland gave their permission and set themselves up as the fallguys.

Hi Bob,

I don't think it was a spoof. I remember watching films a bit like that when I worked with BL. I guess it was a training film for staff.

Cheers

Julian

[dasadrew]

no but I can see a picture of how things went wrong quite easy from watching that, it would not happen in these days

Drew, and others. On behalf of SOCTFL, there has indeed been a mistake made here. We now know that the shaft that was supplied to size up these thrust washers was measured at the wrong end, so apologies to all concerned. The existing stock are now all being corrected, and will soon be available again. If anyone has an incorrect one, please return it to your supplier for replacement. Lingen.

Hmmmm........

[SaskStag]

There is now a whole industry set up around accidents and mistakes (not perfect yet). I've read a fair bit about how mistakes happen for my line of work, and that film is not far off (stereotypes- yes-but it was the 70s). The point is clear though; human error is the highest cause of accidents in all industries/professions.
The medical world (especially surgery and anaesthesia) is modelling training and accident prevention after airline and nuclear industry changes; where special training, checks (fail-safe systems) and standard operating procedures (SOPs) are rife after major catastrophe's were found to be caused by human error (ego trips in some cases).
Others may be able to comment on similar changes in their own line of work
Cheers
Tanya
Bored - still waiting for silicone hoses.........

[edd]

We also seem to think our modern cars are faultless but in truth a shocking amount of new cars are recalled for a design fault or a failure. I was told the stat the other day and its something like 1 in every 2 cars sold have a recall and or quality control issue. What's really galling is the production of Mini. Range rover. Jaguar. Rolls Royce all brands made by blighty but not invested in at the time.
Edd

[andy p]

I wonder if they did recalls in the 70s, don't sound like they did

[dasadrew]

....What's really galling is the production of Mini. Range rover. Jaguar. Rolls Royce all brands made by blighty but not invested in at the time.
Edd

All managed by Germans, French, Chiinese and Indians now. However, I don't subscribe to the common belief that Brits couldn't organise a piss-up at a brewery. I've been to a few Real-Ale events and must frankly confirm that Brits can indeed organise a piss-up at a brewery. Jury's still out on engineering projects though!

[Bob Heritage]