STRANGE ENGINE NOISE

[stagmoneypit]

Hi
I have a tapping noise coming from the front of my rebuilt engine, it seems to emanate from the water pump cover. I had replaced the water pump with a new unit to eliminate the noise but to no avail. I fitted what I thought to be the correct gaskets to achieve clearance between the cover and pump but the noise still persists.

Have I got the clearance wrong between cover and pump or is it something more serious? The jackshaft is a brand new BL replacement and the bush at the bottom of the pump has been replaced in the block. I have a 6-vane pump.

Also is there a possiblity of having the wrong water pump cover? What is the difference between 12-vane and 6-vane water pump covers as the parts book seems a bit vague. Can you help?
Thanks
Glen

Image shows type of pump just fitted

[Bob Heritage]

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Hi Glen

Don't ignore this one. You might have the wrong clearance gap and the top of the pump is rubbing on the cover. But alarm bells are ringing by the mention of new jack shaft. I think that the teeth are not mating up properly with the water pump on some of the current shafts around, which can lead to engine failure. Where did you buy it?. Have a look on past threads that Sheepdip posted, poor guy is still having trouble. Hope it's not the case with your car.

Bob

[seaside bill]

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stagmoneypit wrote:

What is the difference between 12-vane and 6-vane water pump covers as the parts book seems a bit vague. Can you help?

Pics of each type here http://www.snic-braaapp.org/itech05.htm#StagWPCover

[stagmoneypit]

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Looking at the pump cover I think I might have a 12 vane cover that has been machined down to fit a 6-vane pump as from memory the casting had stanpart on the top but had the appearance inside of a 6-vane cover, is it possible that this has been done in the cars past? The car had knocking crank bearings and well worn camshafts when I last ran it so the noise might have already been there in the chorus!

I best rip it all apart again this weekend (3rd time lucky!) I will let you know how I get on.
Thanks
Glen

[Bob Heritage]

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Hi Glen

Let us hope that it is the cover. If you are going to take it apart this weekend as you say, you should see some marks where the rubbing is happening, you might also decide that you remove the pump again to check the same on the gear teeth.

Bob

[stagmoneypit]

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Hi
I have had the car apart this morning and the plot thickens!
I ordered the necessary gaskets along with a six vane housing (s/h) from James Paddocks which matches the one on my car, so the cover is the right one for the pump and the the pump bolt was not in contact with the cover. Once the pump was out I noticed the brass bush was a bit distorted where I had been replaced it so I imagine that would caused the shaft to wobble and cause the tapping as the gears tried to mesh, which was confirmed with a spare water pump shaft which showed a considerable amount of side ways play. The pump was bought on ebay from the states!
Hopefully replacing the bush in the block properly will cure the problem, what do you think?
Glen
PS When turned over on the starter there was a very good supply of oil to the jackshaft gear.

[stagmoneypit]

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Image of the cover bought from paddocks

[stagmoneypit]

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The skew gear of the new pump

[stagmoneypit]

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View of the inside of my original pump cover

[DJT]

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Glen,

From your excellent photos everything looks OK. If there was a lot of play in the block bush, then this could be the cause. There should be minimal play at the shaft end.

Dave

[Andrew S]

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Hi Glen and All

I am too at this stage and got the pumpout yesyerdya. all looks OK and have started cleaning everything up and will be modifyig the impellor by taking up to 3mm off teh undernmeath to ensure that it seals well and remains at 90 degs when turning.

Th ereaosn why I took mine out was that although I was getting a trickle of water when revved up, I was also getting a noise that I was also describing to others as a rattle. it was more like an intermittent diesel sound on tickover only and it wehn when i revved the engibe. I was hoping to find something woring but all I can think of was the engibe bush but I cnt get it out and cant see how to do it any other way.

Ihave now cleaned the old shaft up and have the new bits to go in.


What grease do I use whne assembling?

Cheers

Andrew

[Andrew S]

imported post

Here's a better version that has been through the spell check



Hi Glen and All

I am too at this stage and got the pump out yesterday. all looks OK and have started cleaning everything up and will be modifying the impellor by taking up to 3mm off the underneath to ensure that it seals well and remains at 90 degs when turning.

The reason why I took mine out was that although I was getting a trickle of water when revved up, I was also getting a noise that I was also describing to others as a rattle. It was more like an intermittent diesel sound on tick over only and it when I revved the engine. I was hoping to find something wrong but all I can think of was the engine bush but I can’t get it out and can’t see how to do it any other way.

Ihave now cleaned the old shaft up and have the new bits to go in.

What grease do I use when assembling?

Cheers

Andrew

[stagmoneypit]

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Hi Andrew
I managed to remove my water pump bush by using a sharpened flat screwdriver as an improvised chisel to cut down one side and collapse the bush, just be very careful not to drop the bits in the engine, I packed tissue around the area to catch any bits but thankfully it came out in one piece.

When reassembling the parts I would use some "engine assembly lube", if you type this in google Demon Tweeks sell it for about a fiver.

I am wondering what is the best way to install the bush in the block without distorting it as I think this is what caused the shaft to wobble and cause the tapping sound, maybe some kind of stepped shaft?
Glen

PS I would be wary of taking 3mm off the impellor seal face as maybe it would cause you problems later when trying to clearance the cover?

[Andrew S]

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Hi Glen

I have presumed its a stepped shaft, unless mine has worn. When you took the bush out, was there a hollow underneath or was it solid?

I would like to feel a new bush on the shaft before it goes in.

Would describe your noise as being the same as mine? more of a rattle likea diesel?

Andrew

[stagmoneypit]

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Hi Andrew
On my engine there was a void, it may be due me not instslling the bush properly i.e not far enough into the block. What I meant by the stepped shaft was to make a tool that would install the bush without distorting it (mine had mushroomed on the top (Doh!)

The sound from the car was a distinct tapping that increased with the revs which I can only assume was the gears crashing together as they tried to mesh.

I am going to order a couple of bushes from Paddocks on monday just in case one gets mullered and I will put a micrometer on the parts and test off the car before I fit them.

I have a spare 6 vane impeller you can have for just the postage costs which has a very good seal face if you are interested (see picture) if that helps you out.
Glen