Rear sub frame shims

[Moraystag]

Gent's looking through the Fleabay Stag parts section and came across rear sub frame shims for sale.

Having dropped my complete back end last winter I can not for the world of me remember seeing any shims. Any advice on this one guys

[Guest]

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They go between the trailing arm brackets and the front subframe. I think they are fitted to the inner bracket and are used for wheel alignment!

Cheers



Jason

[Moraystag]

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Cheers for thatJason I thought as much. Another winter project and my wheels need aligned for sure especially the front. Wont do this until I refurb front suspension this winter though



Mike

[davidhelencole]

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Hi Guys

This has stimulated a niggle I have had in the back of my mind for a while and thanks to you I need to get it exorcised once and for all.

I have read about shims in the past and I am positive that when I did my restoration I didn't have any shims either.

Ihave a cloudy memory of reading some time agothat the shims were fitted at the factory in order to align the rear wheels ,but only on those individual cars which needed them-I suppose to make up for individualdifferences/tolerances in engineering/production of trailing arms and/or chassis,but I'm not too sure about this or whethershims were only fitted to the mk 1's.

It would be really helpful if someone could put this to bed for me.Here's hoping...



Dave :?

[Moraystag]

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Well that shed's a different light on it Dave. Maybe mine did not need shims originally but I would imagine that when I get them all aligned the garage will know for sure.

Hope we get some feed back on this one. It's something I never thought about before I saw the shims for sale on Fleabay



Mike

[jleyton]

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With robotised productionand tighter tolerances many of today's cars don't need any adjustment but for our era there had to be some way of adjusting castor, camber, king pin inclination, toe in or toe out etc both for the front of the vehicle as well as the rear.

Of course, with everything that's happened to our cars in the 30+ years since they left the production line all manner of changes could have happened - even if they were perfect when they left the factory :shock:

The ideal way of checking is to have a full computerised wheel alignment check but, IMHO,for the shimsthat Mike's talking about, if anything is significantlyout, you'll be seeing it in abnormal tyre wear.

There's absolutely nothing to worry about if you don't have shims - don't feel hard done by . (Unless when you were doing some work and thought 'I don't need these funny little bits of metal and slung them':shock

As for me, I'm just keeping an eye on my tyres and saving the cost of a full alignment - I've got enough to worry about without all that ! - I had a wheelbase variation from side to side of well over 1" :shock:but I know that's not unusual

Cheers

Julian

[Moraystag]

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Cheers for that Julian. I don't seem to have any unevan wear on my back tyres but I have on the front inside on both wheels. I was going to get them aligned last month but though it would be a waste of time and money if I'm going to dismantle the full front suspension in the winter.

Mike

[DJT]

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As already mentioned, the rear shims go in between the outer bracket for the rear suspension arm and the subframe. Having gone through rear tyres rather quickly on my first Stag I went to my locar 4-wheel alignment tyre centre armed with a few spare shims and the necessary tools.

It took a bit of effort to convince them that the rear suspension alignment could be adjusted, and how it was done. I then got them to set up their system which showed misalignment of the rear. They agreed that I could work under the car 'at my own risk', so I was able to slacken the bolts and use a pry-bar to make room for more shims, and re-tighten. When the alignment was correct, I asked them to re-align the front.

This all made a big difference to the handling and subsequent tyre wear.

The big problem is that none of the current tyre/wheel fitters have ever seen a car where rear wheel alignment is adjustable.

Dave

[Jeff]

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Wow Dave, that must have been a job, I take it you were over a pit?

I managed to get to the shims on my Mk 1 only because the subframe was off the car.

My rear wheelbase, as Julian says, is wrong from one side to the other and not having done many miles, doesn't show on tyre wear. But my car still sits low at right front and I was told the holes may have elongated on the subframe, which can cause this, so I need to undo and re fit shims in situ. Now I know you have done it like that, I may give it a try rather than keep putting it off.

Jeff.

[NickA]

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DJT wrote:

<snip>

The big problem is that none of the current tyre/wheel fitters have ever seen a car where rear wheel alignment is adjustable.

Dave

Isn't this just older cars? My current Euro box (Vauxhall Omega) is fully adjustable front and back. Trick is to adjust the back first and then front.

[sjm]

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NickA wrote:

DJT wrote:

<snip>

The big problem is that none of the current tyre/wheel fitters have ever seen a car where rear wheel alignment is adjustable.

Dave

Isn't this just older cars? My current Euro box (Vauxhall Omega) is fully adjustable front and back. Trick is to adjust the back first and then front.

Hi,

Being lazy where is the information on the settings for the rear wheels found


Steve

[NickA]

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sjm wrote:

NickA wrote:

DJT wrote:

<snip>

The big problem is that none of the current tyre/wheel fitters have ever seen a car where rear wheel alignment is adjustable.

Dave

Isn't this just older cars? My current Euro box (Vauxhall Omega) is fully adjustable front and back. Trick is to adjust the back first and then front.

Hi,

Being lazy where is the information on the settings for the rear wheels found


Steve

http://stagownersclub.mywowbb.com/forum1/10453.html


<Edit> that remindsme if you used theROM figures Dave didthey do yours ladened e.g. 4 up? or did you use some other figures?

[StagnJag]

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Jeff wrote:

Wow Dave, that must have been a job, I take it you were over a pit?

I managed to get to the shims on my Mk 1 only because the subframe was off the car.

My rear wheelbase, as Julian says, is wrong from one side to the other and not having done many miles, doesn't show on tyre wear. But my car still sits low at right front and I was told the holes may have elongated on the subframe, which can cause this, so I need to undo and re fit shims in situ. Now I know you have done it like that, I may give it a try rather than keep putting it off.

Jeff.

It is very common for Stags to sit a bit low at the O/S Front a lot (Most?) of them do that. Nothing to worry about. It won't be anything to do with the rear subframe holes. If the rear subframe holes are elongated your rear wheels will appear to lean in at the top. (I don't know the correct technical term Toe in or camber?).

Rgds

Dave

[DJT]

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NickA wrote:

<Edit> that remindsme if you used theROM figures Dave didthey do yours ladened e.g. 4 up? or did you use some other figures?

Good point, Nick. I am afraid I used the ROM figures with the car light, which is the way I would suggest every other Stag and car is done. The ROM states 4-up for both front and back. How many tracking facilities will allow the car onto their ramps with 4 people on board?

As I said above, it really made a difference to the feel of the car and certainly the next set of rear tyres lasted a lot longer than the previous ones, so it couldn't have been far wrong.

Interesting question though. Anyone else come across this?

Dave

[NickA]

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DJT wrote:

<snip>

Good point, Nick. I am afraid I used the ROM figures with the car light, which is the way I would suggest every other Stag and car is done. The ROM states 4-up for both front and back. How many tracking facilities will allow the car onto their ramps with 4 people on board?

As I said above, it really made a difference to the feel of the car and certainly the next set of rear tyres lasted a lot longer than the previous ones, so it couldn't have been far wrong.

Interesting question though. Anyone else come across this?

Dave

LOL, they have weights they put in the car to simulate people . Very very few place do this though. I only found out as my Vauxhall Omega needs to be setup loaded if you don't want it scrubs the front tyres out after a few thousand miles. I guess with the Stag given the smallish number of mile most people do it probably won't make much of a difference