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    4 speed auto conversion

    Does anyone have any experience of fitting a 4 speed auto box in a stag?

    I know monarch do a kit but have you seen the price (£1850)

    This will be a long term project for me, so any help or advice pictures drawings etc. would be greatly appreciated.

    I've seen boxes on ebay for around £100-£150 so then its making up a bellhousing somehow, but what about all the fiddly bits?

    cheers everyone
    ZF 4 spd box, Datsun shafts, SS exhaust, 38DGMS weber 158.9bhp, BMW MC Tomcat seatssigpic

    #2
    imported post

    Kevin

    Are you converting to 4 speed from a 3 speed auto or a manual. Icoverted from a manual with O/D to auto byfitting a jaguar ZF 4hp22 box with lock-up torque converterto my MK1 staglast winter, using a mix of B/W 35 /65 parts and jag parts. If you look on"triumphstag.net" and do a search on the discussion forum then you will see all the posts about the conversion. I used a BW 35 bellhousing and mated this tothe cut down jag/zf bellhousing (you will need a lathe for this work). the jag box does not have a speedo drive fitted so I had to modifythe stagBW35 one to fit, you need to make up a new box mounting, butif you get a jag box then the output flange onthe box is the same PCD as the stag and all you need is a BW65 propshaft.I think that I still have some of the mesurements required for the T/converter fitment, (just need to be able to lay my hands on them)

    Les

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      #3
      imported post

      I think you may find that Faversham Classics still do this work, based on the Tate & Lewis conversion that has been around for many years.

      Dave
      Dave
      1974 Mk2, ZF Auto, 3.45 Diff, Datsun Driveshafts. Stag owner/maintainer since 1989.

      Comment


        #4
        imported post

        Hi les

        you are the very man I wanted to contact, I have read all about this on the other forum but i have had trouble registering on it to contact you.

        I have a bw65 box in my stag so i understand that is a good start, i also have access to a lathe and welding equipment although i'm not especially skilled with either!

        i hope you don't mind if i pick your brains further as i proceed with this, i proberly won't start work until much later this year at the earliest, (moving house soon so as you can imagine time and money in shorter supply than normal!)

        I see that you sourced your 'box from a jag, i suppose a bmw or range rover would do just as well?

        It's my understanding that later boxes were controlled by ecu's so best avoided?

        I look forward to any help you are able to give photos drawings etc. i would not have been as brave as you to do this from scratch so knowing it is feasible for the diy er is very encouraging.

        thanks for the reply

        hope to here from you again

        kevin
        ZF 4 spd box, Datsun shafts, SS exhaust, 38DGMS weber 158.9bhp, BMW MC Tomcat seatssigpic

        Comment


          #5
          imported post

          Kevin

          Take a look at jpart.co.uk they have a very handy list that tells you what gearboxes are fitted to what cars. The range rover is not a good box to start with as they are all fitted with transfer housings for the 4 wheel drive, BMW are very simlar to the Jagexcept forthe rear drive flange, i am not sure if they have speedo drive or not.I saw a photo of a sherpa vanZF 4 hp22 box and that had a speedo drive fitted but the rear housing looked rather long to me.

          I started with the Jag box only because there was onelocal to me for sale on ebay( £50 ) i think that the Jag box is the easy one to convert out of them all.

          As you are not in a rush iwill dig out some of my notes and post them up some time.

          Comment


            #6
            imported post

            thanks for that les, couldn't find jpart.co.uk, but i have been doing a lot of searching online and have found other sites listing which vehicles have this 'box.

            of course just listing zf4hp22 against a particular vehicle doesn't help with all those other details you have mentioned, so i will keep my eyes open for a jag box as you suggest.

            will i need the gear stick from the jag? ( i'm sure i will), and please can you reassure me that i won't have to do anything drastic, like cutting or modifying the shell of my stag
            ZF 4 spd box, Datsun shafts, SS exhaust, 38DGMS weber 158.9bhp, BMW MC Tomcat seatssigpic

            Comment


              #7
              imported post

              Kevin

              sorry I gave you a bum steer it should be jpat.co.uk not JPART, if you look at this site it tells you all the ZF numbering for the models so that you will know exactly what car they came off, it also lists what cars are fitted with the EH type box andwhat carsare fitted with the normal (ie kickdown cable) box. The gearbox I used came from a 2.9 XJ6.

              Also are you thinking of fitting the lockup torque converter or not, my understanding is the the kits supplied bythe likes of Monarch ectdo not use a lock up converter, and I do not know what converter they use.

              I fitted the jaguar U gate selector to mine, but I had to turn it through 180deg with the U and ditch the cable change for rod change (it was a pig to fit and required a lot of modsand would not advise anybody without a lot of time on there hands to try it) I only fitted the U gate because I though it lookedquite good, you can just use the standard stag change I think with mods to the rod. I think you can even use the BW inhibitor switch on the ZF box, I took a differant route and fitted micro switches into the Jag U gate change.

              There are no body mods required at all.

              the only differance between mine and a BW set up when you look under the bonnet is that the gearbox dipstick is on the near side of the car and oil cooler pipes run to a cooler infront of the main rad.

              If you are prepared to show an email address then i will give you my home number so that we can have a chat, or just carry on like this.

              Les.

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                #8
                imported post

                Hi ,

                Would much appreciate if the thread continued.

                Although I changed to manual I have alsoconsidered doing this conversion myself.

                Pete

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                  #9
                  imported post

                  Hi again Les

                  thanks for the pm with your phone number, I will phone you at a later date when I'm ready to forge ahead!

                  In the mean time its good to have all the info available to everyone else.

                  i like the idea of using a lockup converter to really get the benefit of all this work

                  regarding the gearshift i think i would prefer to keep the original in place if the only downside was being unable to manually select 1st

                  (1 becomes 2, then 2 becomes 3 and D stays as D)

                  i'm hoping that when i have all the relevent parts in front of me the whole job will become clearer, can you whet my appetite a little further with some more info on what you did with the speedo drive?

                  PS I found jpat earlier today! also ' the automatic gearbox co' has lots of info
                  ZF 4 spd box, Datsun shafts, SS exhaust, 38DGMS weber 158.9bhp, BMW MC Tomcat seatssigpic

                  Comment


                    #10
                    imported post

                    Kevin

                    My objective when I started my conversion to automatic was to complete the whole job myselfat a minimum cost to me, and utilising as many parts as possible the parts I had to buy are listed

                    1 ZF 4hp22 g/box with torque converter and selector (ebay £50)

                    2 stag bw 35 g/box inc t/converter, engine backplate, driveplate and pedal box £25

                    3 stag bw 65 propshaft £50

                    4 hydro hoses and fittings plus odds and ends £25

                    I used the speedo drive and driven gears fromthe stag BW 35 gearbox and managed to fit these inside the ZF rear extension housing. The drive gear is mounted on the ZF parking wheel/governor assembly, both the parking wheel and the drive gear had to be machined to get them to fit. Parking wheel was machined down externally and the drive gear was machined internally they are held together using a brass (1/8" dia) pin. The pin sits in a machined groove. The length of the drive gear has to be reduced also is this can interfere with the output flange fitments. (all will become clear when you see the components)

                    The driven gear was not so easy, as you are limitedby the correct angle of mesh for these two gears. I ended up using 1/2" studbar that was bored out to accept the gear shaft. I then drilled and tapped the extension housing to accept the stud bar the bar is held in place using locktite and a locknut. The gear end of the driven gear is supported on a fabricated plate that is bolted inside the extension housing, after fitting this plate I had to countersink the governor mounting bolts on the parking wheelas they hit one another. The driven gear shaft was not long enough so an extension piece was fitted. Now that was them both mounted and working and the only problem was that the speedo drive was the wrong way, so I made up a 1;1 counter clockwise to clockwise converter.


                    As you say when you have the parts to hand it will all fall into place.


                    Thats enough for now my fingers are getting weak.



                    Les.


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                      #11
                      imported post

                      wow Les:shock:

                      it just sounds more and more complicated, but not impossible.

                      you had extra complication converting from a manual box in the first place!

                      did you look into the possibility of using the jag flex plate instead of modifying the torque converter?

                      i don't suppose they would be the same diameter.

                      i have been given details of a jag breaker very close to me who will be getting a call soon!

                      I have been telling my wife all about these plans and she says if I am going to be spending some money I should do it now rather than wait til we move ( mortgage going up) and if you read my last comment on the 'my son' thread you can see that it is not an easy choice
                      ZF 4 spd box, Datsun shafts, SS exhaust, 38DGMS weber 158.9bhp, BMW MC Tomcat seatssigpic

                      Comment


                        #12
                        imported post

                        Kevin

                        Its all just a matter of applying yourself to the task in hand, it will look completely different when you see the bits in front of you I have attached some photos ( 3 in total hope they all attach)with a bit of a description to alleviate your fears (its a pity you live so far away) but alas none of the speedo drive that i did.




                        Les.

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                          #13
                          imported post

                          Kevin

                          heres photo # 2

                          Comment


                            #14
                            imported post

                            Kevin

                            and # 3 It might just be me but I could only attach one per message.



                            Les.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              imported post

                              Les

                              I continue to be grateful for your continued help with this, the pictures are very helpful. however I am having difficulty reading all the text on the pictures, and i am losing quality when i try to enlarge it.

                              perhaps you can send me the text seperately?

                              i will now send a pm with all my contact details, that may work better.

                              i agree it is a pity we live at opposite ends of england!

                              i hope one day to see your handy work in the flesh, and maybe my car will be done then

                              kevin
                              ZF 4 spd box, Datsun shafts, SS exhaust, 38DGMS weber 158.9bhp, BMW MC Tomcat seatssigpic

                              Comment

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