anyone know about vintage motors?

[grumpy2]

Helping out a pal with a dead 1932 Standard that won't start. Never worked on anything pre 1960 and I thought it would be simple but I'm baffled. It wont start!

I've checked everything that I can check in a way that makes sense and nothing.

All plugs spark nicely, Fuel if getting drawn into the car as it should and there's compression on each cylinder. firing order checked, static timing set as per handbook but nothing. Not a cough, splutter or backfire. Nothing.

Obviously I'm missing something, but I've got spark, compression, fuel and timing somewhere about right but it won't run. So what am I missing? must be something obvious and major but I'm lost as to what.

Cheers

gary

[KOY 23]

Have you set the timing on the compression stroke, both valves closed? It is very easy to set it 180 degrees out.

[neil.henderson]

I got a 1949 Rover P3 that the bloke from the club couldn't start. Worked my way through the list of items with no luck, till eventually checked the points gap, it was too wide. Changed the gap to the correct setting and off she went 1st try................might be worth checking.........

[Motorcycle mad]

Hi Gary
I assume this is a side valve engine, if so have you actually done a compression test? You may be cranking it over, and because there is pressure at the plughole you are thinking it has compression, but not enough. Side valve engines are heavy on valves, and they may need grinding in? A tow start may do the trick?

Ken

[grumpy2]

thanks chaps. Yep compresssion tested at about 100psi on all cylinders (very low compression engine remember). Plugs points and tappets all as per handbook. plug leads tried in every possible combination both clockwise and anti.

couple more bits of info, the car was driven out of the garage, stopped and now will not restart. I was asked to look at the carb which is leaking fuel, turns out the carb body is cracked. Made a sleeve to strengthen the carb and plug the crack whaich all works OK. The car wouldn't start BEFORE I did the carb (and I haven't fixed the leak either)

Are these things very sensitive to settings or (as I imagine) not and will run badly if things are close but not quite correct. The plan was to run it and set the carb and ignition by 'feel' but it just wont start.

I know the above suggestions are correct but I'll recheck them all again when I next look at the car

Cheers

Gary

[Guest]

I have a 1927 Austin 7 and sometimes after a long lay up, it just won't start. But as Ken says, a tow start or jump start down a slope does the trick. Is it 6 volts and does it crank over as it should? If the battery or it's connections are a bit iffy, there is not much juice left for the spark and that will impede starting. Has it got a starting handle?

Also, I had a 1933 Riley and ditto after a long layup. With the choke on, it would start immediately if I stuffed a kitchen towel (or any cloth) into each carb air inlet. Not enough fuel was getting in to the engine for it to fire and the plugs were dry. When it fired, I just removed the extra "choke" items and off it went. No problems thereafter.

Have you checked if the plugs are wet or dry? If you are getting enough fuel in and you are cranking way, then they should be soaked. And if they are, then they will need to be dried. I don't know what type of carb you have, but if the plugs are dry, it could also be that the main jet is blocked. I get that on the A7 at the moment (Zenith updraft carb) - dirt in the tank.

Just a few ideas. The 180° timing suggestion above is also valid and I've had that before.

[Sheepdip]

Do you know fuel is definitely getting into engine? One trick (a bit dangerous!) I use is to dribble some petrol either into the inlet or into a couple of spark plug holes, then try starting, usually enough for a few coughs to prove electric or fuel.

Paul

[jbuckl]

When my stag was running points I had a no start one day....
There was a good spark , fuel , timing & compressions ok.
The capacitor / condensor had failed and the spark was disappearing when under cylinder pressure.
Quite a tricky one to spot really ...the capacitor / condensor can fail open or closed circuit iirc; closed is easier to spot!

[grumpy2]

hi again chaps some good ideas here. checking the cap isn't something I've done so may be worth a punt by swapping for another.

done the rag over the carb mouth thing and the petrol in the bores thing too. can't dribble fuel into the car while cranking as it's a side draught.

plugs are dry - hence the rag and 'direct injection'.

nothing - even a splutter

the only thig we had was a single backfire when the leads were 180 degrees out and that only happened once all night.

Gary

[grumpy2]

ps Don, what compression pressures were your cars?

[Guest]

I never measured the compression, but I could feel good compression on the starting handle.

If the plugs are dry, then deifinitely no petrol is getting into the cylinders. That would indicate a carb blockage, or a fuel pump problem, if it has one. I had exactly the same thing with the A7. Went to the café, had some beers, jumped in and it would not start. Float chamber was full. Push start no good either. Got towed by a 2CV (the shame of it!) and it fired and coughed and spluttered all the way home. Took the carb to bits and there was the main jet blocked. Blew and poked it out and it fired up first time. Haven't started it since, so no doubt it will do it again. My new Stag has relegated the A7 to the barn on the "to do" list. Have you checked that the float chamber valve is not stuck closed?

The failed capacitor possibility (never had one) would be indicated by a big spark across the points when you open them by hand.

Don

[grumpy2]

weak spark across the points only, Blocked carb main jet is a possibility. blew through with air but the jet is a strange affair with lots of side holes one one at the top so blowing through wouldn't clear everything.

thing is it was running, switched off and won't restart. so whatever the problem is didn't cause it to stop just won't let it start

Odd, thanks for all the ideas

[alan_thomas]

You haven't got a 12v coil on a 6v system have you? - Alan

[grumpy2]

system is 12v neg earth

[marshman]

The Standard side valve engine is not particularly fussy about settings and should at least try to fire.

3 things I would double check.

1. Is the petrol "fresh" and not gone stale - modern petrol doesn't last long (more then 6 months) in old cars as the fuel system is not sealed. Once its gone off its useless.

2. I assume when you checked for a good spark it was with the plugs out and "in air". If that is the case it is no guarantee that they are actually sparking in the cylinders. The best way is to use an in line spark gap. 2 reasons for poor spark - on old cars the primary reason is a duff condenser - the second is a duff coil. As the car did run I would suspect the condenser - easy enough to attach another one on flying leads to check it out. It could possibly be dirty points. If the car has been laid up it might be worth cleaning the surface of the points to remove any insulating oxide from them - then rest the gap.

3. Blocked choke (cold start device) - older engines tend to need a lot of choke before they will fire. A blocked main jet shouldn't stop it firing.

Roger