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Rust removal - an interesting alternative use for a TIG welder!

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    Rust removal - an interesting alternative use for a TIG welder!

    Hi folks, just thought I'd share this tip with you.

    I expect many have come across this before, but a mate of mine recently mentioned using electrolysis as a useful way of removing rust. I had one or two fiddly components to do (including a vacuum advance unit) that I didn't want to put in the blasting cabinet because I didn't want the grit getting where it shouldn't so I thought I'd have a go.

    Basically all you need is a plastic container, some water, some washing soda, a battery charger and a few pieces of metal (I used lead) for cathodes.
    The washing soda makes the water more conductive (quantity to add is not crucial). The +ve of the battery charger goes to the lead cathode, the -ve to the piece of material being de-rusted. One word of caution - don't let the +ve battery charger clamp go in the water, use some wire to extend it or make sure the lead pokes above the surface or it will be destroyed and will rust like whatsit. You're aiming for gentle bubbling. Too much and it will get the water very hot and take too much current from the battery charger. You can control the current by: 1) Surface area of the lead cathode(s) (also size of the material being de-rusted), 2) Amount of soda in the water, 3) proximity of the item being de-rusted to the lead cathode.

    Anyway - a trial run with the vacuum advance unit. This was brown with rust before:

    _MG_9695.JPG_MG_9697.JPG


    As this was so successful I thought about scaling it up. I had an old rusty engine block that I'm rebuilding and I really wanted to get the rust off in a non-abrasive way. I was especially keen to see if I could get some of the nastiness out of the water channels (I'd had a go with a pressure washer which removed the loose but really wanted it better). This was clearly going to need a lot more current than a standard battery charger could supply due to the sheer surface area of an engine block. I suddenly realised that a TIG welder can supply ample current and would probably be a perfect power source! I borrowed a mate's basic DC TIG power source (mostly because its permanently live (doesn't need a trigger holding to keep it on) and is less valuable than my new one ). I got the biggest plastic storage box that B&Q supply, took a bit more lead off the roll for the cathode and here's the end result after best part of a day fizzing away (turned the items a few times to get even results):

    5.jpg1.jpg2.jpg

    Both of these were quite rusty at the start!

    #2
    brilliantly simple james ,the auto industry used a similar pickling process in the seventys as a precursor to the paint process they attempted to apply .british leyland amongst others could garuantee their paint for weeks.the block appears to have cleaned up well .what of the waterways these were often so rough inside as to allow muck to build up and reduce capacity and flow.dont believe this sytem works to well with ally though
    Last edited by stagmuffin; 18 September 2011, 22:31. Reason: bad spelink
    Beautiful early mk1 white tv8 mod? MGB GT and now looking for another V8

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      #3
      That looks impresive James,so what have you got in store for this block? rebore and reground crank?reuse pistons?

      BTW isn't that one of those special needs flywheels,thought yours was manual.

      Cheers Steve

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Stagdad View Post
        That looks impresive James,so what have you got in store for this block? rebore and reground crank?reuse pistons?

        BTW isn't that one of those special needs flywheels,thought yours was manual.

        Cheers Steve
        No Steve, not special needs - its lightened
        I'm just using this on the spare engine as a means of starting and running it. It shall not be used for real hehe.

        I was simply going to hone the bores and fit a good set of 2nd hand MK2 pistons I've got hold of, but in truth I think the block is scrap because one of the bores has been badly scored by a broken piston ring, and some of the others are quite worn. I've looked into boring and sleeving and whilst doable, its not worth it for a test bed. I think I've found a better block so will concentrate on that.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by stagmuffin View Post
          brilliantly simple james ,the auto industry used a similar pickling process in the seventys as a precursor to the paint process they attempted to apply .british leyland amongst others could garuantee their paint for weeks.the block appears to have cleaned up well .what of the waterways these were often so rough inside as to allow muck to build up and reduce capacity and flow.dont believe this sytem works to well with ally though
          The waterways are much improved, but not back to bare metal since they're not in a good "line of sight" with the cathode. I did come up with the idea of a series of lead strips - one for each hole - each inside an old sock to ensure it doesnt short out. This worked well but I only tried one strip and decided it was far too much of a faff.

          You right that this method only works on oxides that form electrolytically. Copper brass and other alloys dont form their oxides in this way and it can't be used to clean them.

          Comment


            #6
            *pedant mode on* the +ve electrode is called the anode, and the -ve is the cathode. *pedant mode off* LOL
            ZF 4 spd box, Datsun shafts, SS exhaust, 38DGMS weber 158.9bhp, BMW MC Tomcat seatssigpic

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              #7
              Originally posted by jpyke View Post
              ....... I did come up with the idea of a series of lead strips - .............. - each inside an old sock..............
              I get that "lead in the sock" feeling most Monday mornings when I have to go back to work.
              The answer isn't 42, it's 1/137

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Kevin Garrod View Post
                *pedant mode on* the +ve electrode is called the anode, and the -ve is the cathode. *pedant mode off* LOL
                Ooh blimey you're right! I was mixing up the terminology between electrolyic and galvanic cells.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ok....

                  I might being a bit thick, but my schoolboy chemistry nags at me saying that during this process, the electrolysis will give off a reasonable amount of hydrogen and oxygen - quite a dodgy mixture. If someone was to try this in a confined or closed space, and they happen to be a smoker, would that not be a recipe for a very big bang and more than lost eyebrows?

                  If I'm right, then maybe a word of warning for the unwary?
                  Last edited by GDPR; 20 September 2011, 10:26.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    What about risk of electrocution using the welder as a source of Electrickery? High currents involved there.

                    Rgds

                    Dave
                    http://www.stagwiki.com | http://parts.stagwiki.com (Under Development)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Top Tip!

                      Don't use your gentleman vegetables as electrodes?
                      Last edited by GDPR; 20 September 2011, 14:36.

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                        #12
                        You sound like a man that speaks from experience
                        http://www.stagwiki.com | http://parts.stagwiki.com (Under Development)

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                          #13
                          BI've led an interesting and fulfilling life Dave, but draw the line at whopping jump leads on the "old fella" and dipping it in a bowl of caustic..... not for me.....

                          Mind you, that would have been safer for it than some of the women I've known.....
                          Last edited by GDPR; 20 September 2011, 15:35.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Known in the biblical sense Russ???

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by StagnJag View Post
                              What about risk of electrocution using the welder as a source of Electrickery? High currents involved there.

                              Rgds

                              Dave
                              This (and Russ') are good points.

                              Welding voltage is of the order of 25V; you can get electrocuted with a battery charger too so safety precautions are wise. Marigold gloves are a good safety device. Although its voltage that is a problem not current when it comes to electrocution. Working on valve amps is far more scary - anode voltages of 550V!

                              Definitely best done outside or in a well vented area because it is hydrogen given off.

                              Comment

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