I think I ve broke her.

[jleyton]

Hi Russ,

Thanks for your comments. So, would you use bolts instead of studs when rebuilding then and, if so, do you reckon it'd make future dismantling easier?

Cheers

Julian

[GDPR]

Good question. The only thing that would really make dismantling easier is not have the coolant find its way up the stud holes, having a tweed little electrolytic reaction and wedging the studs in.... the studs are also used as a form of locating dowel, so need to be a reasonably snug fit, therefore any bolt would need to be the same overall size. To add any advantage, you would waist the bolt, but that adds other problems with stretch etc.

My feeling is even if bolts are used, if the head does its usual you'll just snap the bolt head off. The only things I've found helps is making sure all the corrosion is out of the stud holes, use copper grease on the studs when fitting (not ideal but it does work) and use a decent head gasket.

On that note, I had a struggle buying a head set with standard Payen gaskets last week - they are getting very hard to find but did in the end. Who are making the decent gaskets now and what are they like?

[martin]

Hi Julian, the issue is that the studs seize in the heads, if they're covered in an anti-seize compound it won't happen, the other alternative is stainless studs, a smaller diameter than the holes with a rolled thread, these are available but folk baulk at the cost, a short sighted view in my opinion. I can't see the benefit of using bolts, the same problem exists, jut that this time you have the convenience of a hexagon head to break them.
Lots of heads do come off satisfactorily, we only hear about the ones that don't. Optimism, that's what we need Martin.


OOOPS, beaten by Russ again, must learn to type faster.

[GDPR]

And I'm doing this on an android phone, so you must be slow mate

[jleyton]

Reason: additional verbiage and an imperative to say "electrolytic"

And not just any old 'electrolytic' reaction but a 'tweed little' one as well

Thanks Russ and Martin - all good points.

Just one supplementary question: Do you think the studs more prone to seizing than the bolts ?

Cheers

Julian

[Giles]

On that note, I had a struggle buying a head set with standard Payen gaskets last week - they are getting very hard to find but did in the end. Who are making the decent gaskets now and what are they like?

not used them myself but LD seem to be doing a alternative??

http://www.ldpart.co.uk/shop/shop.php?c=viewproduct&pid=742&cat=22&sid=sid92aa2090d19bf7e82acdf1217d3c102e

Peter is pretty good so assume he would have done his homework on these. Anyone used them?

[Ian Durrant]

The trouble is the BGA gaskets that Peter and Tony Hart are selling only come in extra thick variety. I'd like to see a standard version too so that the squish characteristics can be retained without having to go to the drastic resort to decking the block .020" :-(

[Giles]

have you spoken to Peter about this? If they are not what we need then something for the tooling fund?? as they are a bit vital!!!

[Ian Durrant]

deleted as messed up the quoting

[Ian Durrant]

have you spoken to Peter about this? If they are not what we need then something for the tooling fund?? as they are a bit vital!!!

I suspect the tooling funds attitude would be that a quality gasket is available, so our cars aren't in danger of being off the road. Most cars are probably running on the extra thick by now anyway. But it does seem a bit silly to be re-manufacturing the heads and then not having a quality correct thickness gasket to go with them.

I suspect BGA could easily make the standard one if there was the demand, maybe there isn't

[GDPR]

And not just any old 'electrolytic' reaction but a 'tweed little' one as well

Thanks Russ and Martin - all good points.

Just one supplementary question: Do you think the studs more prone to seizing than the bolts ?

Cheers

Julian

No mate, I just think the studs are more difficult to get a decent grip on without slippage to enable you to get some serious torque on to, whereas a bolt has the advantage of an integral head.

The real difference being then is that the bloody nuts will turn on the stud, or the bolt head will snap off..... your choice

[martin]

Wards are advertising original head gaskets. Martin.

[V Mad]

The shear point on a stud is always at the top threaded section, so on that basis I think a bolt is less likely to shear. I would use studs with a reduced diameter along most of the middle section, then fill the void with copper grease. An alternative way is to 'ream' out part of the stud hole, but make sure the lower end (say 1/2 inch) is not reamed to ensure good head and gasket alignment and resistance to creep.

[Ian Durrant]

Wards are advertising original head gaskets. Martin.

Yes but with the strap line "Last few in stock"