heard it all before water leak in the vee

[therat04]

Hello everyone i have been living on and off with a water leak in vee for some time now, K seal has been used with some reduction of the leak, I think the source is the water pump but i am not ruling out the inlet manifold or both , I am sure there are others out there in the same predicament, so i would like to know the extent to which you would leave your leak's before attempting a repair.
The reason i am holding back repairing the leak is the car is running so well at the moment i am reluctant to spoil that as there are so many things that can go wrong during a repair.
My leak for some reason is intermittent, its always there at start up then stops when the engine warms up, after a run the vee is usually dry but occasionally the water is there, if the car is left for a week water is in the drip tray approx half a cupful, i put this down to fitting a header tank giving a weight of water above the pump causing it to leak more when cold .
It would be nice to know how long you have been running your cars with water in the vee just to make me feel better about not fixing mine....Steve

[flying farmer]

My Stag engined estate has been leaking water into the vee from the pump for 2 years now, ever since I rebuilt the pump. I had to skim the impeller, and wonder if I got it true in the lathe. It was so bad to begin with I used to run it with the cap off the header tank, it pi##ed out when under pressure, but is getting better with increasing mileage. If k seal hasn't fixed it, it is almost certainly the pump as kseal cannot be expected to fix a moving joint. Also my Stag engined TR leaked for about 2 years before I got fed up with the smell of antifreeze dripping on the exhaust manifold. Neither car used much water, it was just a matter of keeping an eye on the water levels. You can only get away with this with a header tank fitted, as you have found. If the old expansion bottle is being used, then air draws into the system through the pump seal as the engine cools, then chucks all the coolant out as the engine heats up, lo and behold it overheats and further ruins the stags reputation
Personally I would keep running it until it becomes a nuisance, then throw the useless thing away and fit one of Stagdads belt drive kits. I have one of those fitted to the Stag after the standard pump caused the jackshaft to seize, the TR got an electric pump as a belt drive won't fit, and I made the mistake of rebuilding the pump on the Estate as the pump teeth and jackshaft were still perfect. When I have to remove it again I will fit electric as the battery position prevents me moving the alternator to fit the belt drive type
Neil

[DJT]

Hi Steve,

I can understand exactly what you mean. I have been through the same with mine.

K-seal is excellent stuff for sealing small leaks in radiators, or possibly inlet manifold gaskets, but it ain't a miracle cure. The water pump seal depends on a smooth surface on the underside of the impellor where the graphite seal rubs. If this surface isn't smooth, which is highly likely on a Stag which is used intermittently, or laid up for a while as the cast iron rusts. Using the car will renovate the seal temporarily, but the leak will return. The only way to completely cure it is to pull the water pump and replace the seal. As a minimum, the underside of the impellor should be machined smooth before rebuilding. A better solution is to fit the ceramic seal, as supplied with the water pump kits sold by LDparts. This requires a 3mm deep recess to be machined to accommodate the ceramic seal. http://www.ldparts.co.uk/shop/shop.p...6860d6260ea912 I had this done by a local firm while I waited for the price of a couple of pints.

I was fortunate in that the brass cage came out without a struggle and the rebuild went according to the book. All back together and leak free................

Dave

[therat04]

My Stag engined estate has been leaking water into the vee from the pump for 2 years now, ever since I rebuilt the pump. I had to skim the impeller, and wonder if I got it true in the lathe. It was so bad to begin with I used to run it with the cap off the header tank, it pi##ed out when under pressure, but is getting better with increasing mileage. If k seal hasn't fixed it, it is almost certainly the pump as kseal cannot be expected to fix a moving joint. Also my Stag engined TR leaked for about 2 years before I got fed up with the smell of antifreeze dripping on the exhaust manifold. Neither car used much water, it was just a matter of keeping an eye on the water levels. You can only get away with this with a header tank fitted, as you have found. If the old expansion bottle is being used, then air draws into the system through the pump seal as the engine cools, then chucks all the coolant out as the engine heats up, lo and behold it overheats and further ruins the stags reputation
Personally I would keep running it until it becomes a nuisance, then throw the useless thing away and fit one of Stagdads belt drive kits. I have one of those fitted to the Stag after the standard pump caused the jackshaft to seize, the TR got an electric pump as a belt drive won't fit, and I made the mistake of rebuilding the pump on the Estate as the pump teeth and jackshaft were still perfect. When I have to remove it again I will fit electric as the battery position prevents me moving the alternator to fit the belt drive type
Neil

Thanks for that Neil, it sort of backs up the reason why i am holding back repairing it, my stag like yours doesn't use much water but on the occasions it leaks whilst i am driving the anti freeze really stinks.The belt drive kit is something i have been looking at but like repairing the pump i am unsure i have the skill level to complete it.
I take it you like the stag engine Neil having at least 2 cars under stag power, I do agree the stag engine is a good engine and with a few mods would have become a fantastic engine.....Steve

[therat04]

Hi Steve,

I can understand exactly what you mean. I have been through the same with mine.

K-seal is excellent stuff for sealing small leaks in radiators, or possibly inlet manifold gaskets, but it ain't a miracle cure. The water pump seal depends on a smooth surface on the underside of the impellor where the graphite seal rubs. If this surface isn't smooth, which is highly likely on a Stag which is used intermittently, or laid up for a while as the cast iron rusts. Using the car will renovate the seal temporarily, but the leak will return. The only way to completely cure it is to pull the water pump and replace the seal. As a minimum, the underside of the impellor should be machined smooth before rebuilding. A better solution is to fit the ceramic seal, as supplied with the water pump kits sold by LDparts. This requires a 3mm deep recess to be machined to accommodate the ceramic seal. http://www.ldparts.co.uk/shop/shop.p...6860d6260ea912 I had this done by a local firm while I waited for the price of a couple of pints.

I was fortunate in that the brass cage came out without a struggle and the rebuild went according to the book. All back together and leak free................

Dave

Hello Dave I came to the same opinion regarding K seal it reduced the leak but did not stop it for long so i sort of knew it was the pump.
The car only did 700 miles in 4 years before i purchased it, so i gave it real shock when i covered 5000 in less than a year, interestingly it was not leaking for the first few months but i have no doubts the lack of use has caused this problem, i run the car now at least twice a week all year, when i eventually get brave enough to sort this i hope the repair goes as smoothly as yours....Steve

[richardthestag]

mine has been leaking for longer than I care to remember, seems to be only when cold or the leak is so minor that the hot engine evaporates it before I notice. After a decent run the v is bone dry, next morning there is coolant in it.

I tried k-seal and it slowed it but didn't stop it. so I suspect pump seal. Last year I did return trip to Le Mans (900ish miles) and with the header tank in place i didn't even have to top it up.

I now have a header tank and low level warning light so will carry on until it gushes or I decide that it is time to pull the inlet manifold etc which will probably be a long time and / or weeks before I decide to part with the old girl.

[jbuckl]

K-seal and or similar products can leave a residue in all the coolant passages / gasketed areas that is a pain to remove thoroughly.

Its all right for a cheap runaround but not for a classic really.

In moderns, some of the passageways are so small that k-seal and or similar can block tham off leading to other complications.

The last stag engine I rebuilt had lots of k-seal & or similar residue to remove... about an extra days work.

[therat04]

mine has been leaking for longer than I care to remember, seems to be only when cold or the leak is so minor that the hot engine evaporates it before I notice. After a decent run the v is bone dry, next morning there is coolant in it.

I tried k-seal and it slowed it but didn't stop it. so I suspect pump seal. Last year I did return trip to Le Mans (900ish miles) and with the header tank in place i didn't even have to top it up.

I now have a header tank and low level warning light so will carry on until it gushes or I decide that it is time to pull the inlet manifold etc which will probably be a long time and / or weeks before I decide to part with the old girl.

Hello Richard your leak seems to be about the same as mine, but as i have said after i had fitted the header tank it got a bit worse when the car is left in the garage.
I have not fitted my low level alarm just yet, partly through laziness and partly because i am always checking the levels etc.
I suppose at some stage the time will come when the pump has to be done. i just have not got the bottle at the moment...Steve

[therat04]

K-seal and or similar products can leave a residue in all the coolant passages / gasketed areas that is a pain to remove thoroughly.

Its all right for a cheap runaround but not for a classic really.

In moderns, some of the passageways are so small that k-seal and or similar can block tham off leading to other complications.

The last stag engine I rebuilt had lots of k-seal & or similar residue to remove... about an extra days work.

Good point there, I have only put 2 pots of k seal in the car, one when the car developed the leak last year, i flushed the system just before christmas and i must admit a lot of k seal residue came out of the expansion bottle i had then, The second bottle was put in a few weeks back and reduced the leak, just buying me a bit more time before i have to delve into the unknown...Steve

[jbuckl]

As mentioned below, the ldparts ceramic washer is an useful mod to consider.

[therat04]

As mentioned below, the ldparts ceramic washer is an useful mod to consider.

I have been looking at this option, but i did not want to get into machining the pump so i think i will go with a Tony Hart exchange pump when the time comes, then if my pump is to badly corroded i am sure Mr Hart has plenty of spare bits to help me out...Steve