Which Lowering Springs to go for?

[ChasR]

ATM I am in a bit of a pickle with my Stag.

Whilst it is in storage I am aquiring a number of parts so as to getting it closer to the car it should be when the sun starts to shine once more .

One bugbear at the moment on my car is the suspension setup. AFAIK it is on stock rear springs (they have 10 coils on the rear and it rides at least 1/2" higher on the rear (although visually it looks to be alot more), with positive camber present on the rear wheels combined with non stock springs on the front painted red which I suspect to be Chris Witor (CW) springs.

As far as I can tell, the front springs had 9 coils in stock forum, with the HRS springs being 8, and CW's having 6 (which is how many mine have in place).

You may have guessed what I am considering doing which is to simply buy some Chris Witor springs which in theory should bring the ride height to a correct level all round. My question is what is your opinion of the lowering kits out there?

On the basis that I am guessing what springs I have on my Stag from simple observations, what would you do if you were in the market for some lowever springs? Buy some CW Springs for the rear, or go with a whole new spring setup altogether from the likes of either HRS or Monarch?

AFAIK the car appears to have newish track control arm bushes on the front with drag bushes and rear front subframe bushes prior my ownership.

Thanks again .

[flying farmer]

It is difficult to tell the spring rate just from the number of coils, but generally less coils are a stiffer spring. Unless you know for certain where the springs originated, I would go for a complete set. You might get the ride height you want with mix and match set, but if the spring rares are wrong it will handle peculiarly.
I fitted a set of HRS springs complete with replacement trailing arm brackets to get rid of the negative camber, and I am well pleased with the result, but Chris Witor may be cheaper. Cornering ability is greatly improved without compromising too much on ride quality, though I suspect slightly firmer dampers might be of benefit on the front as it feels a tad under damped on certain roads.
Neil

[ChasR]

I am fairly sure (unless they are an earlier HRS derivative of springs) since after further investigation I almost definitely have the camber brackets present on the rear for a lowered car.

AFAIK post May 1974 cars (which mine is (albeit only by around 6 numbers after the changeover!)) came with taller springs and hence 'drooped camber' brackets to combat the positive camber.

However, correct me if I am wrong with the info.

Neil, what brackets did yours come with when you changed them?

http://www.chriswitor.com/datasheets/trailing%20arm%20shackles.pdf

Mine are the items on the left.

[TIMBO]

My Stag was sitting way too high at the back so I spoke to a chap at Monarch who was very knowelagable. They have 3 different heights of springs and he offered plenty of good advice, and if I remember correctly he said that I could change the springs if I thought that I had purchaced the wrong ones.

I used 1/2" lowered springs with progressive ride and they made all the difference. Also I had previously had new poly spring insulators fitted and they too come in different thicknesses and can make quite a difference to ride height. I ended up cutting some down so I could 'fine tune' and set the height the same on both sides.

Without speaking to Monarch first I think that I would have ordered the wrong ones so they are worth speaking to.

Hope this helps

Tim

[mike@thenook]

ATM I am in a bit of a pickle with my Stag.

Whilst it is in storage I am aquiring a number of parts so as to getting it closer to the car it should be when the sun starts to shine once more .

One bugbear at the moment on my car is the suspension setup. AFAIK it is on stock rear springs (they have 10 coils on the rear and it rides at least 1/2" higher on the rear (although visually it looks to be alot more), with positive camber present on the rear wheels combined with non stock springs on the front painted red which I suspect to be Chris Witor (CW) springs.

As far as I can tell, the front springs had 9 coils in stock forum, with the HRS springs being 8, and CW's having 6 (which is how many mine have in place).

You may have guessed what I am considering doing which is to simply buy some Chris Witor springs which in theory should bring the ride height to a correct level all round. My question is what is your opinion of the lowering kits out there?

On the basis that I am guessing what springs I have on my Stag from simple observations, what would you do if you were in the market for some lowever springs? Buy some CW Springs for the rear, or go with a whole new spring setup altogether from the likes of either HRS or Monarch?

AFAIK the car appears to have newish track control arm bushes on the front with drag bushes and rear front subframe bushes prior my ownership.

Thanks again .

Mine is on the HRS kit - had it for years and very happy with the slightly firmer ride but cornering superb compared to the standard wallow - I do have Spax all round though set slightly harder at the front and almost standard at rear. You just have to play araound with it really to get it how you like it.
Only down side is if you live in an area where there are speed humps (anyone that says they are a good idea should be shot!) you need to be very carefuul you dont compromise your exhaust!

Cheers,

[flying farmer]

I think the brackets reqired probably depend on the year of your Stag.Mine is a 76, and has the late type brackets as shown on Chris Witors site. The brackets supplied to suit my car was the inner bracket only, which was of the early type, the outer bracket had to be slacked off to allow it to twist a little to align the bolt holes, but the camber is spot on.
Neil
PS good point about the speed humps, my home made tubular manifolds run over the cross member for this very reason. The stag tubulars fitted to my stag powered estate had a bit sawn of the bottom of the manifold to raise the downpipes by about 3/4 inch, and this has not grounded yet despite lowered springs

[mike@thenook]

I think the brackets reqired probably depend on the year of your Stag.Mine is a 76, and has the late type brackets as shown on Chris Witors site. The brackets supplied to suit my car was the inner bracket only, which was of the early type, the outer bracket had to be slacked off to allow it to twist a little to align the bolt holes, but the camber is spot on.
Neil
PS good point about the speed humps, my home made tubular manifolds run over the cross member for this very reason. The stag tubulars fitted to my stag powered estate had a bit sawn of the bottom of the manifold to raise the downpipes by about 3/4 inch, and this has not grounded yet despite lowered springs

Hmm, not a bad idea but its the centre boxes that i've grounded several times and each time it happens the gearbox bracket gets bent - i'm thinking about some form of re-shaping of the pipework to get over this one.

[ChasR]

It is very funny you say that.

Whilst my exhaust is not bashed to buggery there is evidence of them scraping a couple of things in their time on the centre boxes and tail section. It would not surprise me if this was one reason why my car has some rake.

I said before I would get a side shot. On the basis it is now stored, here is such a shot. It is currently on 185/70R14s which I believe are the 'wrong' tyres depending on which sources you believe.

I shall see if I can definately confirm whether my springs are the Chris Witor items. Although with the success owners are experiencing with the HRS springs I am tempted to go with them instead.

As for the height and camber issue, here is a picture .

[mike@thenook]

It's definitely too low at the front rather than too high at the back and if you have lowered springs on the front this would be the outcome - with the HRS ones all round (and you should never mix lowered with non-lowered, unless building a dragster) the car is more or less level.
Also, there are only new brackets to substitute the outer ones on the rear subframe which align the camber perfectly. If you are going to fit this kit I would also suggest if you havent already fit poly flex bushes as well - they take away all the rear end twitch. I've cheated slightly here too in having the Datsun Drive shafts which are properly engineered unlike the stag ones.
I've no experience of the Witor items save the fact that most of his stuff is designed for the 2000/2.5 range which in all models will be slightly heavier at the back than a stag so I am not sure his rear springs/rates are stag compatible - he'll tell you though.

[flying farmer]

From the pictures I would say my stag is about the same height at the front, but much lower at the back. I also have 185/70 x 14 tyres fitted, and there is about 1 inch between the top of the tyre and the arch, it looks like you have about three inches.
My stag has no center boxes, just a pair of straight through TR silencers at the rear, so I have no exhaust lower than the bodyshell, important when I take it off road when paragliding!
Neil

[StagnJag]

As a guide a Stag sitting on standard springs should be 14 1/2" from centre of wheel to top of wheel arch.

Rgds

Dave

[flying farmer]

I have just measured my Stag with the HRS springs and the wheel centre to wheel arch at the rear is 13 inches. At some time my car was fitted with a towbar and it had booster springs over the shocks which accounts for it dropping about 3 inches at the rear when these were removed and the HRS kit fitted
Neil

[tonypy1]

My understanding (from a very good source) is that Chris Witor supplies all the lowering kits no matter who you buy off. The current offering is red springs with camber compensating shackles although these are not suitable for all models, my late MK2 needed another type so I would speak to him first, he really knows his stuff.

[mike@thenook]

From the pictures I would say my stag is about the same height at the front, but much lower at the back. I also have 185/70 x 14 tyres fitted, and there is about 1 inch between the top of the tyre and the arch, it looks like you have about three inches.
My stag has no center boxes, just a pair of straight through TR silencers at the rear, so I have no exhaust lower than the bodyshell, important when I take it off road when paragliding!
Neil

Is it loud with the TR boxes or quite acceptable? i'd go for this set up if its ok to live with....

[KOY 23]

Mike.

I heard it on the rollers at National Day and thought it sounded great, not at all loud but very smooth.Im not sure how much the change is due to silencers or to the special tubular manifolds Neil has made but it sounded great.

See you at Brands?

John.