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Payen Head gasket or not a Payen Head Gasket- That is the question

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    Payen Head gasket or not a Payen Head Gasket- That is the question

    We all know Payen have ceased production of head gaskets for our cars so I was pleasantly suprised to see on a well known 'tier one' suppliers website 'Payen Head gaskets' available in 'normal' and 'extra thick'
    I ordered 2 and these were duly delivered with an invoice that declared they were 'Payen'. In my opinion they clearly are not, on ringing they defended their 'Payen' origin claim but after my comments about the gaskets rec'd offered to take them back for a full refund inc postage.

    DSCN3041.jpgDSCN3042.jpgDSCN3044.jpg

    The pictures show an existing Payen gasket I already had identified by the red sealing strip around the edge. Points I would draw your attention to are:-
    The material - Payen is a glossy surface coating that is almost sticky to touch the 'other' gasket has no such finish.
    The sealing strip - My existing Payen gasket has a red seal strip on both sides the delivered gasket has none.
    The waterway cutout at the end is cut away to the edge of the 'Fire ring' on the delivered gasket there is about 3-4mm of gasket between the waterway and the fire ring on my Payen.
    The fire ring on the existing Payen have a central ridge in effect forming 2 separate deformable ridges. the delivered gasket has a completely different profile and, although not visible in the pics the inner dia of the fire ring is larger on the delivered gasket.
    Quality - All the punchouts of my existing Payen are clean and sharp, the delivered gasket has loose material and 'torn edges'

    So guys what do you think, Payen or not Payen? Needless to say they did not arrive in the familiar Blue/White striped packaging - Alan

    #2
    Nothing like Payen, I believe that Peter at LD Parts has the best substitute now, although I think they are all the thick type.

    Comment


      #3
      Bearing in mind your factual report and the fact that the supplier took the gaskets back and gave a full refund (which is positive) I would think it would be worthwhile to mention which supplier. This would be useful for all and I can't see any danger to the club unless someone starts adding "emotion" to this thread.

      Drew
      The answer isn't 42, it's 1/137

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by dasadrew View Post
        Bearing in mind your factual report and the fact that the supplier took the gaskets back and gave a full refund (which is positive) I would think it would be worthwhile to mention which supplier. This would be useful for all and I can't see any danger to the club unless someone starts adding "emotion" to this thread.

        Drew
        Drew, I don't want to name the supplier because I have used them many times with nothing but good service. When one transaction falls short it seems mean to shout it on an open forum afterall I never posted when they do everything right.

        No I think it is just a warning to those who think they are buying original Payen gaskets to check before they order they are Payen packaged and have a red sealing strip around the edges. There will be many on here doing this for the first time that have never seen an original Payen gasket. - Alan

        Comment


          #5
          I have the extra thick gaskets made by BGA and they are identical to the payen type with the red seal round the edges.

          Adrian

          Comment


            #6
            The red ring around the edge was only present on the extra thick payen gasket. I have a pair of original payen standard thickness gaskets still in their stripey packaging. I also have 2 pairs of standard thickness "payen" gaskets that I purchased from EJ Ward some months ago as I wanted a spare pair of standard thickness payen gaskets for each of my three engines
            The gaskets from Wards did not come in payen packaging, do not have AX650 (the payen part no) stamped into them, and the fire rings look very similar to the pictures above, but appear to be stamped out a little cleaner. The only marking on these gaskets is 1.959 stamped by the rear cylinder
            I would suggest these were not payen gaskets and should never have been advertised as such.
            The reason I did not send them back is simply that Wards have an excellent reputation for quality and would therefore not sell crap gaskets, and believe me I have fitted crap gaskets in the past.
            The first set of non payen gaskets I fitted lasted about 10 years and 70,000miles before failing at the fire ring on both cylinder banks between the fire ring and the rearmost waterway, which bearing in mind the Stag engines reputation did not seem unreasonable. I replaced these gaskets with more non payen gaskets from another (not Wards) Triumph parts supplier, and the fire ring on these failed to compress sufficiently to keep the water in the engine when I filled the cooling system for the first time. From this point on I have only fitted Payen gaskets, obviously this will be a problem from now on.
            The point is, we can only rely on the reputation of the suppliers to protect us from crap products. The BGA gaskets may turn out to be as good as the Payen, they may not, only time will tell I am afraid, and most people will not find out untill years down the line as the annual mileage covered is usually pretty low. I was doing 12,000 miles per year in my Stag engined TR when it was my only vehicle, now with 4 triumphs on the road non of them exceed 3000 miles, so it should take more years for problems to show up
            The only real comment I can make on head gasket quality payen verses non payen, (Not including the BGA gaskets as I have no experience of these) is that the non payen gaskets needed to be retorqued every few thousand miles, taking 25-30,000 miles to stop compressing, whereas the payen gaskets only seem to need retorquing once and don't seem to move again although I do check them annualy
            Neil
            Neil
            TV8, efi, fast road cams and home built manifolds. 246bhp 220lbft torque

            Comment


              #7
              I have had success using the 'bga' thick gaskets, but cover with 'stag wellseal' all over, all faces.

              Having said that, I'd use wellseal on payen too.



              Good point made by Neil here:-

              The only real comment I can make on head gasket quality payen verses non payen, (Not including the BGA gaskets as I have no experience of these) is that the non payen gaskets needed to be retorqued every few thousand miles, taking 25-30,000 miles to stop compressing, whereas the payen gaskets only seem to need retorquing once and don't seem to move again although I do check them annually.

              Quite surprised by how much torque relaxation had occured when I checked them.

              Julian
              Last edited by jbuckl; 17 February 2012, 11:36.
              There are 2 secrets to staying on top :- 1. Don't give everything away.
              2.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by flying farmer View Post
                The red ring around the edge was only present on the extra thick payen gasket. I have a pair of original payen standard thickness gaskets still in their stripey packaging. I also have 2 pairs of standard thickness "payen" gaskets that I purchased from EJ Ward some months ago as I wanted a spare pair of standard thickness payen gaskets for each of my three engines
                The gaskets from Wards did not come in payen packaging, do not have AX650 (the payen part no) stamped into them, and the fire rings look very similar to the pictures above, but appear to be stamped out a little cleaner. The only marking on these gaskets is 1.959 stamped by the rear cylinder
                I would suggest these were not payen gaskets and should never have been advertised as such.
                The reason I did not send them back is simply that Wards have an excellent reputation for quality and would therefore not sell crap gaskets, and believe me I have fitted crap gaskets in the past.
                The first set of non payen gaskets I fitted lasted about 10 years and 70,000miles before failing at the fire ring on both cylinder banks between the fire ring and the rearmost waterway, which bearing in mind the Stag engines reputation did not seem unreasonable. I replaced these gaskets with more non payen gaskets from another (not Wards) Triumph parts supplier, and the fire ring on these failed to compress sufficiently to keep the water in the engine when I filled the cooling system for the first time. From this point on I have only fitted Payen gaskets, obviously this will be a problem from now on.
                The point is, we can only rely on the reputation of the suppliers to protect us from crap products. The BGA gaskets may turn out to be as good as the Payen, they may not, only time will tell I am afraid, and most people will not find out untill years down the line as the annual mileage covered is usually pretty low. I was doing 12,000 miles per year in my Stag engined TR when it was my only vehicle, now with 4 triumphs on the road non of them exceed 3000 miles, so it should take more years for problems to show up
                The only real comment I can make on head gasket quality payen verses non payen, (Not including the BGA gaskets as I have no experience of these) is that the non payen gaskets needed to be retorqued every few thousand miles, taking 25-30,000 miles to stop compressing, whereas the payen gaskets only seem to need retorquing once and don't seem to move again although I do check them annualy
                Neil
                See EJ Ward's advert in this months SOC magazine..................

                Dave
                Dave
                1974 Mk2, ZF Auto, 3.45 Diff, Datsun Driveshafts. Stag owner/maintainer since 1989.

                Comment

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