Spray Gun Advice

[XFSTag]

Morning all
Hope someone can give me a bit of advice when choosing a spray gun..

I am hopefully soon going to be in a position to spray my sons Mini (when the welder has finally been put away) and I plan to do the engine bay in the Stag later in the year as it's not as I would like.
I have a 3HP 100litre 14cfm belt driven compressor and want to know what the best (affordable) spray gun would be to match it and give me the best results. I haven't done any spraying for years and things have moved on with HVLP and LVLP and so on. I will be using Cellulose for this as I don't want to be shelling out for breathing gear other than a good mask and goggles. I have read using 2K paint is risky? Although it would be useful if the gun could handle other paints if I move on later.
I have been recommended a DeVilbiss FLG5 which I think is a fairly standard gun for around £70. But others have suggested various HVLP jobs and even the LVLP versions. Frankly I am confused by it all and would appreciate a steer from anyone who has bought one recently or knows their way around them. Some of the suppliers haven't been that helpful tbh and seem to just want to flog something. I realise it's important to match the gun to the output and capacity of the compressor but some of the suppliers seem to ignore this with their recommendations


I will be setting the airlines up properly with filters and regulators and building a small spray booth in the garage so most other bases are covered. Any help or pointers welcome or suggested suppliers I can try

Cheers
Glyn (spending my day off sticking my Mini on a spit/Jig )

[StagManiac]

Glyn,

I am a Hillman Imp owner too and a friend on the Imp Club forum recommended me this kit, available on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320718953072?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Here is what he had to say about it: "...after chatting with Uncle John [who is a professional bodywork specialist], I got my dad to buy me these for christmas last year, as a starter kit. John has used them and says they are bloody good as the next stage above them woud be a £300.00 devilbis gun like he has - so a fairly good recomendation."

The kit is incredibly cheap for what you get too. I am going to buy one and try it as soon as I can - probably in a few months. To be clear, I have not tried it myself but it does come with a recommendation from someone that has.

Might be worth a punt. (No liability implied or accepted... )

Paul

[pompey272]

Hi i've always used cellulose on the outside of a car and i have used a cheap gun and a Devilbis and a HVLP and to be honest all 3 done the job because thats the beauty of cellulose you can pile it on flatten it with wet and dry then polish it. I would use a cheap gun and spend on the polisher i purchased a polisher about £130 its a dual action polisher made by Kestrel model no DAS 6 they say its impossible to burn through the paint with it and i agree it is very good used with G6 & G3 compound.Only problem with cellulose the prep work has to be spot on but if it isn't it's easy put right. I use synthetic for under the bonnet as it gives an instant finish and is harder wearing than cellulose.I'm no expert and would love to have a pro paint job done but your looking at least £1500
were as a cellulose all in can be done for approx £400 thats paint polisher primer etc and lots of hard work,I hope this helps and good luck

Trevor

[XFSTag]

Thanks for the inputs chaps,
Paul, I have been told/read about those kits made by Fast Mover tools I belive. They were recommended on another forum as damn good value for the money and a couple of people in the trade were using them. So there must be something behind it I guess. I might give it a go as they include a lot for the money, I suppose worst case senario it would make a good primer gun. I'll report back if I get one.

Trevor, on the polishing front I already have the kit, machine polisher and all the pads and more bottles than Halfords. I went through a sad period of having to have a very shiney well detailed car I stopped when I bought the Stag and my classics took over the garage, the daily driver now sits on the drive for 12 months a year! Which was a big change for me, now it gets a clean once a month! Did bring the paintwork up on the Stag nice though so still gets the odd outing!
I feed back my experiences once I have took the plunge.

Just spent a small fortune on panels and various bits and bobs for the mini. The Jigs all bolted up and I am just needing the able assistance of my son to lift her up. I will be glad to put the welder away though. The Stag is hidden in the corner under many sheets and covers
Cheers
Glyn

[flying farmer]

I switched to using two pack when I started spraying the stag last year, and have done the TR in two pack this year and definately won't be going back to cellulose. I use a proper respirator mask (not air fed) on the recomendation of the paint suppliers, and I use it for sanding two pack as well because the dust is not pleasant, and it is a pleasure not to come out of the shed with my head spinning as it used to with cellulose and just a dust mask!
I actually use a really small gravity fed gun purchased from Stoneliegh a couple of years ago, and prefer it to the bigger gun I got last year. It only holds enough for a couple of panels or a bonnet, but since you can't just tip mixed two pack back into the tin like you can with cellulose, it suits me fine.
Having botched a couple of panels due to dust landing on the panel, I can highly recommend an electric polisher, should have got one years ago. A quick wizz over with some 1500 grit then polish works wonders. When I sprayed one of the TR doors I missed a shallow dent, took it back into the shed and attacked it with the orbital sander and some 600 grit but to my suprise sanded out the dent without breaking through to the primer. I then polished it up nicely, so I now stick an extra coat on all panels as an insurance so I can give it an extra hard polish if I am not happy with the results.
Two pack costs a similar amount to cellulose, the primer is probably more expensive, but you need a lot less. I put seven litres of Topaz cellulose on my estate, and the colour is still a bit thin in places, my TR took about 2.5 litres of two pack, I recon the Stag would need three litres
Neil

[Guest]

I wish I could spray..or have a mate who could!

[keeny]

devilbis jga spray gun 1200 went and dry then buff with G3 on slow polisher using a little water to thin out paste and reduce the risk of burning the new paint

[73stagman]

I paid less than 50 quid for a hvlp gun. Used it for 2k and metallic clear over base. No problem...... The compressor struggles to keep up but your is a bit bigger than mine so would be ok.

I have sprayed both cellulose and 2k and it all depends on the finish you want. 2k will be longer lasting but will be harder to get a good gloss (you have all the polishing kit you need though) Celly is easier to apply as you can just keep putting paint on and rubbing down till your happy... for me its a no brainer I dont want to do the same car again in a while so I used 2k.
I bought a new respirator non air fed for the 2k as I reckoned that with the small volume used for one car there would be no problem. (In other parts of the world they are used all the time by painters with out problem.) There is an issue with cyanides if you use 2k a lot but for the small amount you do in your own garage you probably breathe in more poison whilst filling your fuel tank with unleaded petrol. Anyway Im still here and lungs are just fine so i guess it worked.

[redstag]

I know it is hazardous but does 2k really contain cyanide?

Pete

[marshman]

Agree with everything flyingfarmer and 73stagman say about 2k vs cellulose. Used to use cellulose and got fed up with it "sinking" back after a few weeks and showing up some of the repairs below the paint - yes its easy to touch it up, cut back etc - but the fact is with 2k you don't have to. All mine has ever needed is a light polish. I've said it before on this forum - my Landy that I sprayed over 6 years ago - still looks as good and shiny today as it did when I finished spraying. I initially used a disposable repirator mask - about £25 - but now I'm sold on 2k I have invested in a proper airfed mask - boy is that nice alomost healthier than breathing fresh air

Roger

[73stagman]

I know it is hazardous but does 2k really contain cyanide?

Pete

Yes it does. The vapours that come off are a cyanide vapour of some sort due to the isocyanide in the mix... not good in high concentration but if you use a proper respirator then you should be ok. You should keep all bare skin covered too if you have any skin allergies (ie gloves and full face mask)

[dasadrew]

Cyanate is the "safe" form of Cyanide. NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical Warfare) decontamination uses a process which turns harmful cyanide into cyanate.

There can be a lot of difference between -ate and -ide. Sodium Chloride is common salt; sodium chlorate is a weedkiller!

I often wonder whether the guys worrying about the health aspects of 2K, when painting a once-off couple of panels, also drink, smoke, are overweight and don't regularly exrcise!!

[73stagman]

Cyanate is the "safe" form of Cyanide. NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical Warfare) decontamination uses a process which turns harmful cyanide into cyanate.

There can be a lot of difference between -ate and -ide. Sodium Chloride is common salt; sodium chlorate is a weedkiller!

I often wonder whether the guys worrying about the health aspects of 2K, when painting a once-off couple of panels, also drink, smoke, are overweight and don't regularly exrcise!!

I agree with you Dasa (and I did mistype isocyanide... it is ISOCYANATE) but some body just might decide its fine to do ten cars with no breathing kit! Just because some body here says its safe! It is all to do with the VERY LOW exposure to the cyanate / cyanide vapours when spraying one car occasionally.
The advise from HSE is that "exposure to isocyanates MAY cause or worsen asthma" and "significant skin contact with some of the hardeners used MAY cause or aggravate dermatitis"
Some of the scare stories are there to keep sales people in jobs too so be careful what you read and what you listen too. Get your own facts from truly independent sources if you can

[SUTTY1]

Drew, do i sense a healthy disrepect for Health and Safety regs.
I believe people are 90% responsible for their own H&S PROVIDED THEY HAVE BEEN INFORMED OF THE RISKS,. Surely if only using 2pk occassionally with a decent reccomended mask, no air supply required, we should be OK. It's not like taking one of 007's cyanide pills.
I only mean get as much information as you can (stagman) and make your own decission

steve

[keeny]

If i am correct the main problem with 2K paint is the body can not break it down properly to dispose of it once it has entered the body,but the ocasional use with a high quality mask in a well ventalated area should not cause a problem
Keeny