Wheel installation

[elvimto]

I changed the wire wheels to a set of alloys that I refurbished put on a new set of tires and had really bad road noise the tire shop changed the tires and when the guy was installing the front set we both noticed how much run out the tire had. We did managed to eyeball it so that it ran true. I had the car out today for a test drive and I do not have the road noise but I have a hum going on like its going in and out of phase sort of like hmmm hmmm hmmm its all related to the wheels when you go to nuetral and let the car coast its still there. I did not have time to lift the car up and check if the remaining wheels are running true but I think that will be my next check. The lower speeds are fine just when you get it up to 45 /50 on up and on the freeway 65 plus. Wheels were second hand, new wheel studs and new stainless wheel nuts, I did read the thread on balncing on a running road but this does not feel like a balance issue. I cannot see the tire place changing another set of tires for me so I think I am stuck with the tires. I thought it would be straight forward to make the swap to alloys and save a bit, I should have just replaced the wire wheels with a set of Daytons and been done with it I may end up doing that after I get the other bits done. More stuff to do. Any thoughts on this.

cheers Stuart

[dasadrew]

I'm not saying that this is your problem, but that hum going in and out of phase (known as beats) classically comes (or came) from tyres. If you take a modern tyre you will note that the tread is not distributed uniformly around the circumference exactly to avoid this resonance. (I don't mean asymmetric tread here as that's another thing entirely). In Germany, we run winter tyres when it gets snowy and the "cheap" manufacturers sometimes used to skimp on this business of having an uneven tread distribution and you would often get that droning.

[jbuckl]

Round tyres seem to have gone out of fashion!

[elvimto]

Just a small update, i am sure this has been covered in this arena but here goes.
Jacked up the car and spun the wheel yes you can see a visable run out.
Put a dail gauge on to the tread got up to .115 thou high spot to low spot now this might be the bit that was on the floor but only sitting for a week ? this was about the same on the other front tire.
Removed the wheel and measured the wheel nuts where they fit into the wheel .710 dia the hole that it goes into .754 dia so there is room for some play.
I then decided to try truing up or centering the wheel and then doing a run out on the tread it was slightly better but it was still visable.
My next move is to make line up wheel nuts I can make the diameter .750 then screw them on to the wheel nut this will center the wheel and then I can do a run out on the tread thats the plan. I heard from an other US owner who has the same problem and he has spent considerably more on trying to eliminating the problem. I am starting to think why do they bother making tires almost round? since that seems to be one of they main functions of a rolling object. OK rant over

cheers Stuart

[mjheathcote]

There is a known problem, but not mentioned too often, with some reproduction alloy wheel nuts being slightly undersized on the diameter. This of course can cause problems with the wheel centering using the nuts, and the nuts not having a cone seat to centre on the wheel. All a bit of a bad design by Triumph really!
A local member to me had the same issue, he changed his nuts and the problem went away, he then measured the difference between the two sets and one set was smaller on outside diameter than the other...
Cheers
Mike

[elvimto]

Thanks for that bit of info Mike I bought stainless wheel nuts from my supplier over here. I made up four line up wheel nuts with a larger dia .750 and the first wheel went in and lined up quite well with less than .010 thou run out on the rim. Thought i was on to a winner then started the second wheel one of the wheel nuts I made from aluminum gaulled against the wheel and it was a pain to get out, back to the drawing board. This will at least get the rims lined up and possibly help with the whole road noise situation. I want to resolve this so that I can drive the car.

Stuart

[elvimto]

Just an update, I made new wheel nuts at work today out of brass with a taper on them and lined up the rims best one .010 thou and worst one less than.020 thou run out on the rim of the wheel. Went for a quick run and the noise is still there although not as bad but when you start going up to 60 on up its quite obivious so it looks like its back to the tire shop this week end, what a pain

Stuart

[StagnJag]

I have heard of people using the nuts for the Stag steel wheels to centralise Stag Alloys as they do have a taper. they have to be removed and replaced with the correct ones for the alloys first of course.

My tyre fitter said he had a difficult job balancing my original Stag alloys and thought that they may be a bit out of shape. I have since replaced them with modern Reproduction Stag Alloys and they are much better than the originals were.

Rgds

Dave

[elvimto]

Went back to the tire shop today explained the story, manager tells me sounds like the wheel bearings are bad or something , standing behind the counter, i said from here you can tell that? Fricking amazing. Well he say's this is the second set of tires and something must be wrong can you take your car and have the bearings checked no charge. I then tell him I just finished building 3000hp steam turbine which turns at 10 grand so I know a thing or two about bearings, vibration etc. I called the place up and set up an appointment the guy asks what kind of car do you have? A 71 Triumph i said, no problem bring it in and we can check it out, you could have knocked me down with a feather all this knowledge on my doorstep the que should be I hear you talking but I do not know what your are saying. So next week I will go to this guru and see what happens next. The moral of the story go with your first instinct when you start to second guess yourself your end up just plain stuffed.

cheers Stuart

[elvimto]

Just an update, you always pay for your learning. I went to have the bearings checked met the mechanic, form Europe who had been here for 10 years and has his own shop so that was worth the time in its self. We put the car up on the ramp and he checked it all out no problems with wheel bearings etc. The rear wheels did seem a bit tight and I suspect the wheel adjusters might biting a bit so i am going to check them out. Back to the tyre store, after a conversation with the tyre guy I decided to put on a set of Michelins cost has now went from the $300 US out the door to three sets of tyres later $580 US out the door but the tyres are good for 80,000 miles so I best get to driving. Got the car on the freeway and the noise level was reduced but it is still there so although I am not sold that the tyres were causing the whole problem they were contributing, they diff whine also reduced. Do tyres make a difference? after going down this road and if I added up my time etc I should say yes, but I did learn quite a bit so now I am paid in full. Rant over rear wheel adjusters next.

cheers Stuart

[keeny]

A mate of mine owns a tyre shop and always fits good brand name tyres to his own cars, he says driveing on some cheap tyres make the car sound like the wheel bearings are shot

[Duncan Skye]

A mate of mine owns a tyre shop and always fits good brand name tyres to his own cars, he says driveing on some cheap tyres make the car sound like the wheel bearings are shot

Hear, Hear. I've had Tigar Prima's fitted to my Mondeo as my local garage says "They seem to do OK" but at some point I thought I was hearing a bearing noise from the rear, particularly when the back seats were folded. So I replaced the bearing I thought was making the noise, only to find it was still there. Careful analysis over changing road surfaces revealed a difference in that particular frequency, ruling out the bearings. So I just put up with it.

Ho Hum. The price of cheapness.

Duncan, Skye.