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Do cylinders and or head gaskets have NORMAL problems ?

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    Do cylinders and or head gaskets have NORMAL problems ?

    Hi folks , summer is here and it’s raining roll on the drought !
    At work I have been asked to make a detailed diagram with explanations of a typical cooling system. So , with that in mind , what better car to base it on but the Stag ,and get paid to do my hobby . When this is finished I will post it for discussion with the expectation that between us we can establish correctly and conclusively :-
    Where the coolant flows .
    What and how the components should operate .
    Short comings in the system .
    And last but not least what improvements can be made to update the system to cope with the car’s age and todays driving ..

    In starting this project I realised that to complete the full system I think it would help to include the head gasket , and the cylinder head with details of where and what goes wrong and what areas to pay special attention to in order to reduce the risk of further problems .

    I am therefore appealing to to all of you out there that have replaced you own head gasket or have had someone do it and know the answers , to contribute your gasket \ cylinder head details so they can be collated into “ USUAL FAULTS” . Hopefully one or two of the garages that advertise in the mag could also give their findings . I hope this will give a more accurate idea of our system in its completeness .

    I would like to know :-
    A / age by registration --- this will give an idea of engine modle
    B / engine number --- this will give an idea of engine spec.
    C / mk 1 or 2 inlet manifold --- mk2’s have the thermostat with the stat bye pass disc attached to the
    bottom of it .
    D / did the head gasket lift off or was it well stuck – to the point that most of the gasket had to be
    scraped off the faces .
    E / did the gasket have any obvious blow or burn through areas – if so where abouts ?
    F / if you records show , how long ago , in both time and mileage when were the gaskets last replaced ?

    THE CYLINDER HEAD
    G / did it have any loose or moved valve seats – if so which cylinder number /s and which valve .
    H / did it have any loose or moved valve guides – if so which cylinder number /s and which valve .



    To start this off my head gasket of a few months back was :-

    A / K reg Jan 1972
    B / engine no --- LF10186 HE BW
    C / mk1 manifold
    D / the head gaskets were not stuck at all , they looked as if they could be used again .
    E / the gaskets had no obvious blown area .
    F / the gaskets were last replaced in Sept 1978 , 25156 miles ago .
    G / all valve seats were sound
    H / no 6 exhaust guide had moved and was replaced with an over size guide .

    Many thanks to all and especially those that contribute .

    Michel Oxer

    #2
    I think as a detailed study is being done it would be good to collect data for which water pump is used (six or twelve vane) and if this has any effect on the overall efficiency of the cooling system. there has been numerous discussions on here regarding this with not a lot of definitive data and outcome.

    Comment


      #3
      You would do well to read the SOC Technical Reprints articles which reported very detailed and comprehensive tests on the cooling system, and a variety of components. I would not include aspect of the head gasket in a talk on cooling systems.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by 73stagman View Post
        I think as a detailed study is being done it would be good to collect data for which water pump is used (six or twelve vane) and if this has any effect on the overall efficiency of the cooling system. there has been numerous discussions on here regarding this with not a lot of definitive data and outcome.
        You mean like the data following the 2004 tests of the Stag cooling system done by Prof. Matthias Lindner of the Mannheim University?

        The answer isn't 42, it's 1/137

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by V Mad View Post
          You would do well to read the SOC Technical Reprints articles which reported very detailed and comprehensive tests on the cooling system, and a variety of components. I would not include aspect of the head gasket in a talk on cooling systems.
          http://www.stag.org.uk/technical/index.htm - start at page 72


          Rgds

          Dave
          http://www.stagwiki.com | http://parts.stagwiki.com (Under Development)

          Comment


            #6
            I read through some of these post and one by Neil aka flying farmer said to send the return from the heater (the one that uses the stainless tube line that runs on side of the RH head veiwed from inside the car to the top of the water pump) instead to a modified return top hose to the radiator. I have an adapter that i made for my car similar to the bleed set up that was put on MK 1 cars which I can drill to 3/8 pipe and put a hose return into it. My questions are 1.If I did this should I still leave a reduced flow by means of an orifice going to the pump cover ? 2.Since this should only been in use when the heater is in service would it not beifit the system by retuning all the hot water to the radiator for cooling and not recirculating some to the pump ? 3 Is the intention of going into the top of the pump cover to prevent cavitation?
            OK that's enough questions even for me but I would like to hear your comments.

            cheers Stuart
            Last edited by elvimto; 28 April 2012, 07:34.

            Comment


              #7
              Hello Michel,

              Perhaps you might include the effects of attaching the rhs cylinder bank to the cooling system by changing the water transfer housing?

              Kind regards,
              Dieter.

              Comment


                #8
                The problem I had with the heater return going into the water pump cover was simply that it let an air pocket get trapped in the water pump, and it had nowhere to get out. However, looking again at the Haynes manual diagram of the MK1 cooling circuit which I was using at the time, I now wonder wether I had missed out the link between the thermostat housing and the pump cover as the mk1 doesn't have a foot on the thermostat to shut off the flow back to the pump. I thought it would just lead to water circulating without going through the radiator (which it would), but of course it also acts as an air bleed back to the inlet manifold
                IIRC I linked the pump housing and thermostat housing with a mk2 hose and put a restrictor in it so air could escape but no significant amount of coolant could pass through, relying on the heater (which I couldnt shut off) to circulate water through the engine while the thermostat was shut
                Everything I have used since then had a mk2 inlet manifold which didn't give the same problems
                Neil
                Neil
                TV8, efi, fast road cams and home built manifolds. 246bhp 220lbft torque

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hi Michel,

                  A couple of points for your explanation.

                  Two volutes are cast into the block around the pump's rotating element to balance the discharge to each bank of cylinders.

                  The head gasket has calibrated holes to control the flow of water between block and head giving the required distribution and prevent certain areas being starved.

                  I completed the restoration abandoned by the PO then drove around 1000 miles before rebuilding the engine. The heads had already been skimmed and new valve guides fitted during the PO's restoration. There were TWO standard thickness head gaskets on each side and the block was 4 thou low in the middle. The gaskets came off easily.

                  I had continuing problems with air collecting in the system. I'm convinced this was the main reason so many cars overheated in the early years. I installed a header tank fed from the top hose connection on the rad returning to the original rad expansion pipe across the top of the rad. This cured the problem completely. I ran without a manual cooling fan for around 4 years but since fitting one the engine temp remains rock steady in all conditions.

                  hope this helps,

                  Mark.

                  Comment

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