Who do I believe?

[Stimpy]

Ok folks,
Try this one for size....!


Yeserday - I was driving along and the engine (possibly electrics) went off an on very quickly - almost unnoticeable except for the radio restarting.

Then my wife said - 'Is that red light suppose to come on?'

Sighing 'no' we retuned home and took off in a space age but characterless Honda Civic instead - leaving the Stag on the drive.

I looked at the leads - the cables felt around under and over. Found some funny cut leads which i think I can assume have always been like that.

So - with gloom in my face I get up (late) and get to task on my car - again.

Then I had a brainwave - which is good for me, not having a very big one!

So I started the engine.

The voltmeter was on zero - I started the car.
Like a race I was willing the voltmeter up!
UP it went 11v - come on!!!11.5v upi can do it !!! 12v - ok we have the battery 'still' voltage c'mon keep going, 12.5 - smile raising - 13v looking' good then 13.5 voltage
The gauge read 13.5 or slightly over.

But the IGN light stayed on.

So my initial though is - voltmeter telling the truth (I've started up a few times in this condition with no sluggishness).

So who do I believe and why?

1. Glowing proudly RED ign light or.....
2. Over 13v voltmeter ....


If you (please please please) think its '2' then any ideas behind the red light?
or
If you believe it's 1) '1' then dodge this flying stone and equally pls tell me why?


As always - thanks a ton

Steve

[4x4]

I'd stick a digital voltmeter across the battery and see what is going on - the dashboard ones are not terribly accurate, and heavily damped.
My first suspicion is that it is the alternator at fault.
Measure your battery voltage at rest first - what you see will depend on how charged it is right now.
Start it up.
Look for 13.8 volts or more with the engine running.

[Stimpy]

I'd stick a digital voltmeter across the battery and see what is going on - the dashboard ones are not terribly accurate, and heavily damped.
My first suspicion is that it is the alternator at fault.
Measure your battery voltage at rest first - what you see will depend on how charged it is right now.
Start it up.
Look for 13.8 volts or more with the engine running.

Due to the wonders of the iiPhone I am in town (via Honda) and shall pick up an inexpensive voltmeter while i am out. If that then registers over 13v Then I will know exactly what it is
Some one told me that the stag volt meter was surprisingly good but beat be 100%



Thanks for the idea - I shal report my findings!

[Stimpy]

Ok - so I bought a nice little voltmeter while in town - then got home - I connected it to the battery with nothing operating (lights engine whatever), It said 12.3v so my thought Immediately told me that if the alternator was broke then our recent trip - then - home - due - to -red - warming - light would at least have drained some volts.


Anyway - cut to the chase - started engine - voltmeter slowly crept up 12.3 - 12.9 - 13.4 - 13.8 - and then hovered around the 14 v zone.
Also - the pin car dial actually under-read. So 14v on the digi-thing was abut 13.7 on the analogue one - not too bad - plus best to underreaf than over-read.

Does this now confirm the red light?

If so (please) do any of you know where to look? I thing I will start with the back of the speedo area cluster but if anyone has done something similar in the past......


I'm assuming that because there's no volts getting to the warning light then the mechanism thinks that zero volts are present - if you get my meaning.

Thanks so far.

And thanks for making going out with the wife shopping a little more interesting for this normal male human who only says 'yes thats nice' every 5 or 6 mins.

[ampotter]

Hi Steve. Measuring the voltage, with the engine off, is not necessarly a good indication of the condition of the battery. Should the alternator have gone faulty, then a short run would not drain the battery sufficiently to be noticeable. When restarting the engine you have a reading across the battery of 13.7v to 14v which would indicate that the alternator is working. Do the cuts in the leads appear fresh and are they near any moving parts? Have you checked that all other electrical items are working? Before removing the instument panel check that all fuses and relays (behind the parcel shelf) are secure. Andrew

[Tdm]

Personally I would suspect the Alternator, had a similar problem just recently (see thread "Alternator Gone?"), and quite a few others on here seem to have had Alternator problems recently. It's as though original Stag Alternators have a "limiter" inside them that says time to shut down in 2012. Remember the Red Dwarf episode where "Kryten's" manufacturers sent out a new Robot to replace him!

[ChasR]

If more modern Rovers are anything to go by I would check the alternator connections for dirt etc.

[wilf]

Could be a diode or two gone in the alternator. But still worth double checking all connections, especialy earth straps etc.

[Stimpy]

Thanks for all your replies - its all very good.

However.....

Thinking simplistically and logically:

1) Attach accurate digital detector
2) The reading stays put at 12 point something. No movement in any direction for a good few minutes, so - no action
3) Jump in to car - turn the key..... fingers tightly crossed - get out of car
4) Look at digital detector the 12 point something starts climbing - up and up and up it went. Then hovered at 13.5 to 14 volts

To me this looks like the battery is getting some action - ooerr. i.e. battery is being charged on tick over or above. To me this makes me confident with the alternator - spinning around happily

I'll try loading it up in mo - you know -like - radio, lamps, indicators, fan etc

But at this particulate point alternator and battery are chums and working nicely and showing good signs.
The only spanner (well - light bulb) in the whole thing is the cluster lamp's IGN bit. Like it lying to me!

If I'm getting 14v on journeys then I'm confident it *must* be ok - like - good news.
But whatever is next I'll have to get that light correct (without removing the bulb!! In the good old BL way!!!) - so - thats probably lamp issue.

Bl@@dy electrics! Still, it could have happened to my classic mini and if anyone knows about mini electrics you'll know what I mean ( having joints and elbows on your body that are not there......yet).

I suspect a cable to the IGN light is all guffed up. This is based on everything in the loop agreeing with each other ...... except that damn red light!
My biggest concern is the ultra quick - I mean millisecond timing - off and on in the car (all things electric - i.e. my GPS rebooted). Bear in mind this was really quick - it was the GPD that really confirmed me. But after the blip it ran fine (except the blasted red light!!!)

Very odd!

[Stimpy]

Hi Steve. Measuring the voltage, with the engine off, is not necessarly a good indication of the condition of the battery. Should the alternator have gone faulty, then a short run would not drain the battery sufficiently to be noticeable. When restarting the engine you have a reading across the battery of 13.7v to 14v which would indicate that the alternator is working. Do the cuts in the leads appear fresh and are they near any moving parts? Have you checked that all other electrical items are working? Before removing the instument panel check that all fuses and relays (behind the parcel shelf) are secure. Andrew

The cut wires - one was dirty and one had some electric tape over the end - so I would say - from this situation - that they have always been this way

[Stimpy]

If more modern Rovers are anything to go by I would check the alternator connections for dirt etc.

Done that - I gave it a damn good wriggling!!!

[Stimpy]

I take your point - but the alternator is behaving itself (P.S. its only a year old)

[jakesmig]

Hi, My Stag doesn't use the Triumph system so it isn't like for like, but doesn't it have a regulator with points etc which may need cleaning or adjusting?
John

[Stimpy]

Flippin 'eck all I'm trying to do is put some clever stuff in the car and I get this problem, a choke puller that won't stay put, a relay that decided to commit suicide!! When am I going to get on with my niceties ??

Oh -and the ball joint thingy which I replaced (that reminds me - better get the old item in the post tomorrow).

I've learned a lot but at the expense of moving forward!

FYI - I'm installing, ahem trying to wire up a green light when in drive (4 seed box - easy to get lose in third!!)

[Stimpy]

Hi, My Stag doesn't use the Triumph system so it isn't like for like, but doesn't it have a regulator with points etc which may need cleaning or adjusting?
John

I've got electronic ignition (thank god!)and all the brown wires that emanate from the area are happily taped into loom (i.e. no burnouts etc)