Recon Stag Engine

[NigelMuntzer]

I'm in the unfortunate position of having to replace a Stag engine, something that many of you out there have experienced. I am now in the possession of two Stag MK2 engines the original with knackered heads and pitted bores, and another I recently purchased which does have good heads but pitted bores.
The problem is the cost of reconditioning, I have gone to a recommended Stag garage but I am being quoted 4K, is this normal?
Please advise

[V Mad]

4K may sound a lot but I would say is not unusual, and probably not the highest figure if you shopped around. Important thing is the warranty and after sales service. Hopefully someone on this forum can recommend a good garage to you.

[NigelMuntzer]

Due to the cost, my proposed Triumph Herald rebuild is on hold permanently. I am putting it on eBay this evening at 7pm. Sad day.IMG_0366.jpg

[GDPR]

You say you have 2 engines that you know the condition of - questions I would ask are:

Are either of these engines in the car
Is the engine being refitted by the reconditioner or is being readied for refit as part of a resto later.
How do you know the condition of these engines - are they already dismantled?

Being that you are looking at about £1100 worth of parts, plus about £600 worth of machining costs depending on the current state of the heads, including the cost of reboring the block, you could save a lot of money doing it yourself.... the reconditioner may have factored in remove/refit costs so if that isn't part of the job needed then you could get a bit knocked off....

Russ

[Stagdad]

At 4k you could buy a complete car if you knew the condition of the engine,there is a Mk2in the for sale section that is well know to a lot of us being sold by a top guy and he wants k4,500 .buy it drop in the engine and sell off the rest for a couple of grand.

Cheers Steve

Cheers Steve

[mike@thenook]

£4,000 - whats he doing for that, covering it in gold leaf and offering a 10 year guaranteee?

Steer clear of this guy, whatever the condition that is a complete rip off even if he is fitting it. You could get a whole car for that with a good engine.

[ChasR]

When I spoke to an engine rebuilder I know he was saying it would not be a cheap exercise rebuilding a Stag due to the cost of the spares and the limited supply of them.

It could be found cheaper than £4k I reckon but the aftersales service counts for alot. Let's be honest, you don't want the engine failing . Going for a running engine is another option and can cut down the hassle as mentioned.

If you want another quote let me know . I do know of someone who could advise and used to rebuild Stag engines for a well renowned ex-Stag supplier.

[mike@thenook]

When I spoke to an engine rebuilder I know he was saying it would not be a cheap exercise rebuilding a Stag due to the cost of the spares and the limited supply of them.

It could be found cheaper than £4k I reckon but the aftersales service counts for alot. Let's be honest, you don't want the engine failing . Going for a running engine is another option and can cut down the hassle as mentioned.

If you want another quote let me know . I do know of someone who could advise and used to rebuild Stag engines for a well renowned ex-Stag supplier.

There has been a chap offering engines on e-bay apparently re-built by Howard Vessey for what seemed like a reasonable price but he seems to have gone quiet lately...

[elvimto]

You can replace the liners in the block at 22 pounds each bringing it back to standard then rebuild the engine if your good heads are all straight and do not need any machine work then overhaul them check the cams and decide if they need replacement if not its quite straight forward. I would replace the guides have the valves seats cut and then rebuild them. Looking at the cost of doing your own rebuild 1000 pounds seems to be in the ball park thats a big savings, what is a guarantee worth ? All you get for it is if you can prove that the workmanship is at fault, the get out of jail card is that they cannot guarantee parts supplied by others which they are going to buy from the same suppliers you would and mark them up so they can charge you. Most guarantees over here are 12 months or 12000 mile which ever comes first on an engine rebuild and thats not long. At least if you build it yourself if you will know that it would be right assuming you have the skills needed. Good luck with the car

cheers Stuar

[GDPR]

Blimey Stuart - where are you getting your liners done for that money? Checking yesterday, just simple reboring with no liners is between £35 and £50 per hole in the south of England.

Its obviously a lot cheaper stateside to have machining done - and of course over here you have to throw another 20% tax at the final bill.... the parts cost I stated was based on a Rimmers style rebuild kit with exchange crank, new cams the lot..... if I was rebuilding the engine I would inspect and replace as necessary as I always do, but it was more to give Nigel an idea of what he could be into as a DIY - the engine I did in February came to a lot less including my time as a lot of the engine was salvageable - that was another making one engine out of two similar to what NIgel is intending...

Russ

[elvimto]

Russ,
we have a lot of good small engine shops around here, I went to a shop not far from my house walked in carrying my heads the owner walked up and said wow triumph heads have'nt seen them in a while you had to know you were in the right place. He reamed my new guides and cut the valve seats / inserts and also we had to grind a bit of the valve stem tops so I could get the clearance right for $200. Sales tax is 8% in California but we did it for cash out the door. Also I had a alloy wheel rim repaired welded and polished for $90 they do a wheel like the Stags for about $50 to $60 all nice and shiney. When I did my top end rebuild I did the same as you inspect then replace as needed and its done right.
The 20% vat is a killer at least over here the robbers carry guns.

cheers Stuart

[dasadrew]

Having just had my block linered, I'm lost like Russ. Apart from the fact that I don't understand "Replacing" the liners (unless the block has already been linered) I paid £22 + VAT + postage each just for the liners themselves!

Then the work:

2 x Block set-up on machine (2 x banks)
8 x bore out of block with stepto locate liner at bottom of bore
8 x press in liners with top standing proud
2 x decking each bank
8 x honing liners to size

came to about £700 + VAT = £840

For £168, I should have posted the block to California!

[GDPR]

In fairness to Stuart, Drew, the US still has a thriving industry around tuning and modifying cars, and therefore more 'mom and pop" machine shops that can do the work, and probably without the huge business rate bills and the Elf and Safety goons trying to get them shut down. As the machinery wears out, they do the sums and realise it's better for them to close down than try and get the investment capital from the banks to buy new kit and then hope there is the available work to meet the loan repayments!

Maybe if we did a bit more reboring in the UK and Europe, there would be more investment in new, and cost effective machines, instead of just throwing the engines away or scrapping the cars when they start to burn a bit of oil.....

I remember 35 years ago, you rebuilt engines and gearboxes, now it seems you buy new..... I also remember that in 1996 I was the last person in my garage that knew how to, and could rebuild an automatic gearbox, and I had been out of overalls and into a Foreman's coat for 3 years....

Hey ho....

Russ

[NigelMuntzer]

Stag update

In answer to the previous, both engines now have their heads removed, one set are scrap and I will keep them incase I require the cams valves etc.
Thanks for the comments, I'm sure if I got to another country I would get it cheaper, my problem is what to do next in Surrey.
Yes I am in agreement that 4k is a lot, this does include removal, stripping down, machining and reassembly. It is being offered by one of the main Uk stag specialists with a years garantee.
After some consideration and reviewing the condition of the car, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's all in your mindset, I could as been suggested sell what I have take a loss and with the knowledge I have gained in such a short time go searching for a 7k stag. As some of you are aware, I could go out spend 9 to 19k on a good condition runner only to find out after 300 miles that the engine is knackered and the nice new paint job starts to fall off with the filler and rust, or that the heads are badly corroded or skimmed to death.
For my 9k that I may spend I would though have a car with a good solid engine that even-though wouldn't win any prizes would drive well with new timing chains runners, pistons etc.
Do please give me your thoughts?

[wilf]

Re-linering is quite common in the US where "rare" blocks like Ford 427 side oilers or Chrylser Hemis are worth the effort to save, and of course machinists are so used to working on V8s over there, unlike Europe.