Head Removal Problems - An idea.....

[mike@thenook]

Following a really useful couple of pointers from Drew last evening I took a copy of the brilliant plans for the head removal tool (in Technical Section) to my local engineer (Gosnay's) to see how much it would cost to have one made; I was of a mind that once I had one I'd be able to either loan it out for a small consideration or just sell it on at cost - we'll see what transpires but while I was there I also asked if he'd had any thoughts on sleeving a head with stainless inserts, I reckon this would stop the corrosion problem completely.
He thought it would be a good idea, certainly would stop he problem but again, it may be quite expensive as you would need the sleeves made then each head drilled out slightly to accommodate each sleeve. While I was there chatting though another guy came in who'd had the same problem but with a Jag, worse as the studs go right the way into the sump.
He managed to cure it with stainless steel studs which I gather are now widely available for the Jag - question is then does anyone know if SS studs are available for the Stag?
If not I thought I'd research via my man at Gosnay's the cost of making maybe a batch and them being made available for club members - seem like a good idea?
It just strikes me that if we can find a way of getting rid of this common annoyance for anyone facing a strip down it must be worth it, pending of course on the cost.
(Still got to get the heads of first though to fit the SS studs...)

Cheers,

[milothedog]

Following a really useful couple of pointers from Drew last evening I took a copy of the brilliant plans for the head removal tool (in Technical Section) to my local engineer (Gosnay's) to see how much it would cost to have one made; I was of a mind that once I had one I'd be able to either loan it out for a small consideration or just sell it on at cost - we'll see what transpires but while I was there I also asked if he'd had any thoughts on sleeving a head with stainless inserts, I reckon this would stop the corrosion problem completely.
He thought it would be a good idea, certainly would stop he problem but again, it may be quite expensive as you would need the sleeves made then each head drilled out slightly to accommodate each sleeve. While I was there chatting though another guy came in who'd had the same problem but with a Jag, worse as the studs go right the way into the sump.
He managed to cure it with stainless steel studs which I gather are now widely available for the Jag - question is then does anyone know if SS studs are available for the Stag?
If not I thought I'd research via my man at Gosnay's the cost of making maybe a batch and them being made available for club members - seem like a good idea?
It just strikes me that if we can find a way of getting rid of this common annoyance for anyone facing a strip down it must be worth it, pending of course on the cost.
(Still got to get the heads of first though to fit the SS studs...)

Cheers,

Like this Mike http://www.ejward.co.uk/?subcats=Y&s...roducts.search

Ian.

[Bob Heritage]

Some of those Jag XJ studs pass through the water jacket too, a real problem. Regarding the S/Steel studs for the Stag, they do not feel right when torqueing them up, would hesitate going above 55lbs ft.

[Firept]

Mike.
When I was rebuilding my engine last year I did find some stainless tube that would have done the job I was sort of tempted but didnt in the end.

What I did find is that when I put my reamer down the stud holes ....hmm should rephrase this but here we go I found that the holes were anything but straight as if during use and compression they have changed shape. so I carefully reamed out the holes and when fitting the heads back I coated each stud in a spray coating of Hi-Tempreze (http://zepuk.eu/catalogue/productdetail.asp?ID=72) (good stuff!) and then wrapped each one with a layer of PTFE tape.
I think from memory that you can get a 12.7 mm dia stainless tube off the shelf and that was the correct internal dia for the stud, then you only had to enlarge the hole in the head by about 2.5mm dia.

Of course what's happened since then is that its back on the road running well and at the moment Id rather be driving it than tinkering . I do have a pair of spare heads that have been a bit mutilated not by me so I could have a look and see but it will have to wait till its a lot warmer like it was on Monday!!.

Paul.

[stagmuffin]

stainless steel studs which meet or exceed B7 or B7M or even B16 to ASME -193 this type of st/st stud or bolt will meet and exceed the requirments placed on it by the engine for tempreture pressure and resistance to chlorides and sulphides,as a rule hardness and tensile strength go up the graph together. so check any stainless steel material you are thinking of using meets these criteria.

[keeny]

Gosnay's, ive only heard good things about them and Burton performance have used them for years.Need i say more
P.S not connection
Keeny

[mike@thenook]

Well isn't it just typical - you come up with a great idea as you doze off one night only to find by the next morning its already been done by someone else already [IMG]file:///C:\DOCUME~1\MIKEPC~1.000\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip 1\01\clip_image001.png[/IMG]
Ian thanks for that, I do remember seeing these advertised now by Wards the innovators and I would hope they have used the right material - I'll check (unless they keep an eye open on what happens on here..?)
I have to say i'm intrigued though by the sleeve idea and particularly Paul that you seem to have found a way to do it.
The thing is that by sleeving you are making it more difficult to corrode totally as there are now 3 parts rather than just 2 to stick.
When I get my heads off i'll see just how straight the holes are decide which way to go but well done Wards anyway for studs!
They have a well deserved reputation Keeny and they know Sprints and Stags inside out

Cheers guys!

[elvimto]

I had our supply guy get me some B7 cadmium plated bolts bolts cut the heads of and threaded that end and did the saw cut on top I have them for spares just in case I need to pull the head, I also have made a head puller that works great a sort of belt and braces approach.

cheers Stuart

[mike@thenook]

Thats an interesting idea Stuart - I wonder how that would compare with the ones Ward have on offer at £12.00 each (which sounds quite expensive really) - I'll do some research with Gos'

Cheers

[Motorsport Micky]

Stuart,

These bolts and studs have "rolled thread forms which means the grain structure of the metals flows along and imitates the thread profile,...very strong.

However if you "cut" a thread into the core shank material you are bisecting the grain flow ie part cutting the linear grain flow and introducing a "stress riser" into the material,...very bad. You normally find such cut threads and items fail when torquing up or even worse afterwards when midway through a continental tour in Invercockaleakie or some such place, lol.

Bin them and buy the correct items.

Micky.

[mike@thenook]

Stuart,

These bolts and studs have "rolled thread forms which means the grain structure of the metals flows along and imitates the thread profile,...very strong.

However if you "cut" a thread into the core shank material you are bisecting the grain flow ie part cutting the linear grain flow and introducing a "stress riser" into the material,...very bad. You normally find such cut threads and items fail when torquing up or even worse afterwards when midway through a continental tour in Invercockaleakie or some such place, lol.

Bin them and buy the correct items.

Micky.

So would you be happy using the Wards SS items Micky which appear to be proper studs and not re-engineered bolts?
There's another alternative I see now from Paddocks in Nickel Plated Studs - I guess these would 'warn off' a certain amount of corrosion too but not as effective as SS.

Cheers,

Mike

[elvimto]

Stuart,

These bolts and studs have "rolled thread forms which means the grain structure of the metals flows along and imitates the thread profile,...very strong.

However if you "cut" a thread into the core shank material you are bisecting the grain flow ie part cutting the linear grain flow and introducing a "stress riser" into the material,...very bad. You normally find such cut threads and items fail when torquing up or even worse afterwards when midway through a continental tour in Invercockaleakie or some such place, lol.

Bin them and buy the correct items.

Micky.

Thanks Micky,
yes you are right about the rolled thread, I have a lot of those at work for certain applications. I don't think the original studs were rolled could be wrong, I would still use them as I use treaded fasteners at work all the time and they get stretched with impact guns most likely past the torque factor. The head studs I do not think would shear at 55 ft/lbs but I take your point.

Some of the Triumph owners in the states use fasteners from these guys http://www.arp-bolts.com/ I have no idea of price but I can't see them being 12 pounds a stud possibly worth a call.


cheers Stuart

[Stagdad]

I believe you can use 2 sets of these http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...tModelId=24693 not sure but i think the supercharged stag has these.

Off another site it says use2 sets for a stag

(Triumph)

Head Stud Kit Triumph GT6 (TR6 OK to 3.43” Head Thickness)	SET $122.23	206-4205
Head Stud Kit Triumph 1300 & 1500 (10 stud heads)	SET $68.95	206-4203
Head Stud Kit Triumph 1147 (11 stud heads)	SET $68.95	H206-4203 +1
Triumph TR4 Head Stud Kit	SET $139.80	206-4207
TR7 Head Stud Kit (use 2 sets for Triumph Stag)	SET $90.89	206-4208
Buick/Rover/TR8 Aluminum V8 12 point kit	SET $174.95	124-4003

And if you want to get them in Blighty http://www.chrisastleymotorsport.co....-206-4208.html
Cheers Steve

[new to this]

So would you be happy using the Wards SS items Micky which appear to be proper studs and not re-engineered bolts?
There's another alternative I see now from Paddocks in Nickel Plated Studs - I guess these would 'warn off' a certain amount of corrosion too but not as effective as SS.

Cheers,

Mike

i had a head in the machine shop to get a broken stud out,where some one tried to drill the stud out and drilled through the valve chamber, what the guy in the machine shop did was remove the broken stud and then sleave the hole for the stud with copper sleave

dave

[Motorsport Micky]

Mike,

I've checked the Ward website and the headstuds are Stainless with rolled threads and with a proper hex head on the top to aid removal instead of the poxy screwdriver slot.

I would be happy to use them, Ward's normally research their products quite well in my opinion.

Also I've used loads of ARP bolts throughout my various competition engines and never had a failure with them even when reused many times, favoured by myself.

Micky