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    Demise of TV centre.

    Nothing to do with the Stag or Triumph however it does I feel reflect the state of this country.
    I watched the last broadcast from BBC TV centre it brought back many happy memories of working at the "doughnut", remember once it is gone it can never be replaced we just could not afford to build a centrer like that ever again.

    All of the broadcasters, programmes and Stars were celebrated but the one main point that has been lost and seemingly forgotten is the BBC's engineering department.
    It has worked in the background producing the cutting edge engineering that was required to make the BBC and virtually all British television and radio broadcast the best in the world.
    The feat's of engineering that have been produced by the BBC over the years is just amazing and the main point of all of this has been quality. No matter what they were involved in quality has been the key to it all.
    When you start to look into what they and others in British broadcasting have given to the world it is humbling to think of their achievements.
    As a contractor I worked in BBC TV centre I also worked for the IBA which also had a brilliant design, development and research department, so many things that we now take for granted and probably don't even realise were created by our engineers.
    So lets hear it for the engineers that made the UK great bring back proper apprenticeships train our people to be real engineers and value them.
    I was reminded recently that when, in the past you applied for a passport you needed someone of standing within your community to countersign you passport application that generally fell to 4 people. The local vicar, the local Policeman an engineer or a senior teacher so what has happened to our society?
    OK rant over.
    Long live TV centre.

    Paul.

    #2
    It is a bid sad I will agree.

    Just to pick up on your passport point, I think the criteria was like you say someone of professional /good standing who knew you personally. I don't think as the first resort that would be the 4 you mention, and more likely to be the local doctor, solicitor, magistrate, or architect. Would it be an engineer? - possibly but that term could include the man who mended your push-bike, tv or washing machine - all very important functions but not quite I K Brunel

    Comment


      #3
      Ian, thats the problem, the title engineer in UK, has been "widened" to cover those trades.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by KOY 23 View Post
        Ian, thats the problem, the title engineer in UK, has been "widened" to cover those trades.
        This is an interesting topic. All I ever wanted to be at school was a professional Engineer.
        However once I achieved it, after many years of study, they moved the goal posts as you pointed out.
        Now I have to retrain to become a Scientist :-)

        To late now, too old to worry about such things, but a very interesting point.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by KOY 23 View Post
          Ian, thats the problem, the title engineer in UK, has been "widened" to cover those trades.

          I agree with that statement John, but I think, having done it a couple of times for staff at work, the "Engineer" has to have some professional standing. i.e. Higher education in his / her field, registered with the engineering council, full membership of a professional body like the IMI. SOE or IRTE you get the idea. the last one I signed for one of the young guys I trained ended up with me being vetted albeit via a form sent to me before they would issue him his passport.

          Ian
          Wise men ignore the advice of fools, but fools ignore the advice of wise men sigpic

          Comment


            #6
            It's even worse than stated! One of the professionals who was to be trusted on a passport application is a bank manager !!!!

            Regards the BBC, I look at the online news every day and about two or three years ago there was a sudden change to the appearance. Since then, every single day I can find at least one typo or grammar error in an article without fail. You know, of course, waht's happened: it's been outsourced and is probably being typed in from a grass hut in Sri Lanka!

            Incidentally, the "Engineer" signature was a great success for the Professional Engineering Institutions a few years back.

            Here are the recognised persons of good standing in the community taken from the government website. Amongst others we have
            - bank managers
            - catholic priests
            - journalists
            - pub landlord
            - insurance salesman
            - professional photographer (=paparazzi)

            Countersignatories must work in a recognised profession or be ‘a person of good standing in their community’, eg:
            • accountant
            • airline pilot
            • articled clerk of a limited company
            • assurance agent of recognised company
            • bank/building society official
            • barrister
            • chairman/director of limited company
            • chiropodist
            • commissioner of oaths
            • councillor (local or county)
            • civil servant (permanent), but not someone who works for IPS
            • dentist
            • director/manager of a VAT-registered charity
            • director/manager/personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
            • engineer (with professional qualifications)
            • financial services intermediary (eg a stockbroker or insurance broker)
            • fire service official
            • funeral director
            • insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
            • journalist
            • Justice of the Peace
            • legal secretary (fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
            • licensee of public house
            • local government officer
            • manager/personnel officer (of a limited company)
            • member, associate or fellow of a professional body
            • Member of Parliament
            • Merchant Navy officer
            • minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
            • nurse (RGN and RMN)
            • officer of the armed services (active or retired)
            • optician
            • paralegal (certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals)
            • person with honours (an OBE or MBE, for example)
            • pharmacist
            • photographer (professional)
            • police officer
            • Post Office official
            • president/secretary of a recognised organisation
            • Salvation Army officer
            • social worker
            • solicitor
            • surveyor
            • teacher, lecturer
            • trade union officer
            • travel agent (qualified)
            • valuer or auctioneer (fellows and associate members of the incorporated society)
            • Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers
            The answer isn't 42, it's 1/137

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by dasadrew View Post
              It's even worse than stated! One of the professionals who was to be trusted on a passport application is a bank manager !!!!

              Regards the BBC, I look at the online news every day and about two or three years ago there was a sudden change to the appearance. Since then, every single day I can find at least one typo or grammar error in an article without fail. You know, of course, waht's happened: it's been outsourced and is probably being typed in from a grass hut in Sri Lanka!

              Incidentally, the "Engineer" signature was a great success for the Professional Engineering Institutions a few years back.

              Here are the recognised persons of good standing in the community taken from the government website. Amongst others we have
              - bank managers
              - catholic priests
              - journalists
              - pub landlord
              - insurance salesman
              - professional photographer (=paparazzi)

              Countersignatories must work in a recognised profession or be ‘a person of good standing in their community’, eg:
              • accountant
              • airline pilot
              • articled clerk of a limited company
              • assurance agent of recognised company
              • bank/building society official
              • barrister
              • chairman/director of limited company
              • chiropodist
              • commissioner of oaths
              • councillor (local or county)
              • civil servant (permanent), but not someone who works for IPS
              • dentist
              • director/manager of a VAT-registered charity
              • director/manager/personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
              • engineer (with professional qualifications)
              • financial services intermediary (eg a stockbroker or insurance broker)
              • fire service official
              • funeral director
              • insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
              • journalist
              • Justice of the Peace
              • legal secretary (fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
              • licensee of public house
              • local government officer
              • manager/personnel officer (of a limited company)
              • member, associate or fellow of a professional body
              • Member of Parliament
              • Merchant Navy officer
              • minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
              • nurse (RGN and RMN)
              • officer of the armed services (active or retired)
              • optician
              • paralegal (certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals)
              • person with honours (an OBE or MBE, for example)
              • pharmacist
              • photographer (professional)
              • police officer
              • Post Office official
              • president/secretary of a recognised organisation
              • Salvation Army officer
              • social worker
              • solicitor
              • surveyor
              • teacher, lecturer
              • trade union officer
              • travel agent (qualified)
              • valuer or auctioneer (fellows and associate members of the incorporated society)
              • Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers


              My Wife was a Bank Manager for HSBC before she retired I trust her

              Ian
              Wise men ignore the advice of fools, but fools ignore the advice of wise men sigpic

              Comment


                #8
                I'm classed as an Engineer (commissioning engineer) and I'm thick!!!!
                l worked at TV centre for a few days, walked in the Blue Peter garden, saw the Daleks!!!

                Something else coming to an end

                we will soon be a 3rd world country so all the other countries will help us, wont they???

                Jason

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks for the responses chaps.
                  At least I'm not alone see you in the home for the bewildered then!!.

                  Paul.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I always was led to understand that to call oneself an engineer, you had to have a degree in engineering, however, there are only three classes of engineer that require a government licence to operate, these being Marine, Mining and Aeronautical Maintenance. If you held one of these licences, you could call yourself an engineer.
                    Keith Daley
                    Retired Aeronautical Engineer.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by chopperman View Post
                      I always was led to understand that to call oneself an engineer, you had to have a degree in engineering, however, there are only three classes of engineer that require a government licence to operate, these being Marine, Mining and Aeronautical Maintenance. If you held one of these licences, you could call yourself an engineer.
                      Keith Daley
                      Retired Aeronautical Engineer.
                      The idea a few years back was that the term "Chartered Engineer" (C.Eng) would become a recognised qualification. In most cases this would require a degree, 10 years experience and a position of seniority to achieve. If I recall correctly, the RAeS, IMechE, and the IEEE were all aligned on this. Seemed to flop though.

                      I dropped out of paying my annual fee (a 3-figure sum) when it became apparent that the Hotpoint rubber hose replacer next door with a white van could still write "Engineer" on it.

                      Then came WMD Tony with a cunning plan worthy of Baldrick to dramatically raise the number of university degrees being attained in UK...... by calling all colleges, polytechnics etc., Universities. Irrespective of the worthiness of Polytechnics etc., it just made the term "Degree from a British University" a joke abroad.
                      The answer isn't 42, it's 1/137

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Interesting debate. Can't help noticing the list of acceptable signatures for a passport app. are essentially middle class occupations. The last time I applied for a passport
                        I got my photos signed by a window cleaner and a taxi driver. The lady in the post office told me that this may not be acceptable and that my photo's must be signed by "respected" members of society, Doctors etc. Utterly incredulous I asked her "what made a doctor or a teacher more trustworthy than a tradesman" . Let's face it , you trust a car mechanic with your life, as do you a taxi driver. The lady took my forms and sent them off anyway. Passport arrived no probs. Point made. jools.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by dasadrew View Post
                          The idea a few years back was that the term "Chartered Engineer" (C.Eng) would become a recognised qualification. In most cases this would require a degree, 10 years experience and a position of seniority to achieve. If I recall correctly, the RAeS, IMechE, and the IEEE were all aligned on this. Seemed to flop though.
                          I was going to mention that Drew. The Engineering Council are the governing body of the scheme in the UK and in my industry, construction, it has a recognised status. It's not to say that an engineer is no good without being C. Eng but from my experience of employing structural engineers those who are, rather than being an "Incorporated Engineer", always come up with better solutions to design problems. By virtue of my professional membership of the Chartered Institute of Building I am already "chartered", and could become a full member of the Association of Building Engineers, who are current applying for the Royal Charter. If they are successful, I don't know if that would give me the C. Eng designation but I don't think I would ever feel I was an engineer!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by stagstan View Post
                            I'm classed as an Engineer (commissioning engineer) and I'm thick!!!!
                            l worked at TV centre for a few days, walked in the Blue Peter garden, saw the Daleks!!!

                            Something else coming to an end

                            we will soon be a 3rd world country so all the other countries will help us, wont they???

                            Jason
                            Soon......?
                            Mike

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Chartered Engineer is only recognised in some trades, the general public don't know the difference between a Chartered Engineer and someone who calls themselves an engineer. My plumber now refers to himself as a Heating Engineer - just because he is Gas Safe Registered!
                              Going on from Drew's comments on degrees, a Masters degree is now required to atain C.Eng status - so that keeps them off the streets for another year!.

                              What happened to the Euro Eng qualification that came in the 1980's? That I recall was meant to elevate the status of 'proper' engineers (for a suitable fee of course). Glad I didn't waste my time on that one.
                              Phil
                              C Eng

                              Comment

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