Intermittant Starting problem

[Matt]

The Stag is back from the trimmers (only a week late and 33% more expensive than original estimate...) with its new hood fitted. So I can at last start to get some use out of it. One problem (just one? Well one I'd like to sort out quickly) on which I would appreciate some input.

When I come to start her (with my shiny new starter motor) the car sometimes just clicks - as if there is enough juice in the battery to trip the solenoid but not enough to turn the engine over. However, if I turn off and try it a couple more times the starter kicks in and the engine will turn over happily. That's symptom No 1.
The second symptom is that with the engine turning over, it seems to fire just as I turn the key back from the start position - almost as if there is no spark when the starter is turning or maybe the battery voltage rises enough to produce a spark when its not driving the starter motor. It has lumiation ignition fitted, I can't see and ballast resistor close to the coil.

I half suspect the battery - it shows a not too healthy 12 and a bit volts across its terminals so I suspect that's where the problem is; but has anyone had similar symptoms and found a different solution?
Thanks in anticipation!
Matt

[robbo]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350757421731?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Hi Matt
This might help cure the starter clicking problem. I will be fitting one on my car soon.
Rob

[Goldstar]

Got mine from EJ Wards, slightly cheaper (about 20% IIRC)

[Staggard]

The Stag click is famous and fitting a relay (as the guys have suggested) may cure it (it does not allways compleatly) as for the fireing when you release the key the resister wire from the solonoide to the coil is not connected. If you have fitted a high torque starter there is often not a connection on the solonoide for this. Graham

[Matt]

Thanks for that Guys - so what is the cause of the Stag Click? is it not enough power getting to the solenoid? I've ordered one... another thing to fit! Thanks for pointing them out Robbo and Goldstar (don't have a BSA do you?)
I'll also check the starter and coil wiring - thanks Staggard.
Onwards and upwards - MoT on Saturday; I know it needs a bit of welding but fingers crossed...

[comeinhandy]

Got mine from EJ Wards, slightly cheaper (about 20% IIRC)

Or about 10% of e j wards price(!) if you make one yourself.(£2 for. 4 pin 40 amp auto relay on eBay). To do the wiring think of it like this, the wire that did power the solenoid is now changed over to power the relay coil, and the relay now switches in the local battery positive (from solenoid) onto the solenoid input. It works because it makes a much lower resistance and so higher current supply to the solenoid, which then pushes in properly each time. Regards Jon

[martin]

Thanks for that Guys - so what is the cause of the Stag Click? is it not enough power getting to the solenoid? I've ordered one... another thing to fit! Thanks for pointing them out Robbo and Goldstar (don't have a BSA do you?)
I'll also check the starter and coil wiring - thanks Staggard.
Onwards and upwards - MoT on Saturday; I know it needs a bit of welding but fingers crossed...

Hi Matt, basically it's down to old wiring, and indifferent connections in a multi-plug. The relay is a long term fix. Also, it sounds as if your coil is on the way out. Martin.

[Goldstar]

Or about 10% of e j wards price(!) if you make one yourself.(£2 for. 4 pin 40 amp auto relay on eBay). To do the wiring think of it like this, the wire that did power the solenoid is now changed over to power the relay coil, and the relay now switches in the local battery positive (from solenoid) onto the solenoid input. It works because it makes a much lower resistance and so higher current supply to the solenoid, which then pushes in properly each time. Regards Jon

Good point - elecktrickery is usually a bit beyond my understanding but having seen what the relay was and what was involved in fitting it, I am sure I could have made one up myself. Something else to aspire to....

[Mike Stevens]

What do the dash lights do when you get the 'click'?

If they dim, then it's likely a dead battery, if not, then a poor connection somewhere that's stopping the starter motor turning.

The firing only when the key is released it typical of a ballast problem. But since you have a different starter and ignition it's difficult to guess what. if the new starter doesn't have the extra terminal, then yet another relay should sort that for you!

Cheers,
Mike.

[Staggard]

What do the dash lights do when you get the 'click'?

If they dim, then it's likely a dead battery, if not, then a poor connection somewhere that's stopping the starter motor turning.

The firing only when the key is released it typical of a ballast problem. But since you have a different starter and ignition it's difficult to guess what. if the new starter doesn't have the extra terminal, then yet another relay should sort that for you!

Cheers,
Mike.

Or you fit a twin contact relay saves more wireing less agro

[milothedog]

This should help, quite simple to do.


relay-wiring.jpg
Ian

[Goldstar]

Hi Ian, I assume that is for the starter rather than the solenoid, is that right?

Cheers

Paul

[milothedog]

Hi Ian, I assume that is for the starter rather than the solenoid, is that right?

Cheers

Paul

Not sure what you mean Paul,

it's basically the mod you buy from the suppliers. it uses the original ignition switch feed to the solenoid to operate the coil (86 & 85) in the relay and the relay contacts (30 & 87) then connect a better feed from the large cable on the starter to energize the solenoid.

Ian.

[DaveB]

This should help, quite simple to do.

Hi Ian,

have you started on the wine already -- Erath

http://www.erath.com/oregonPinot/

D
[ATTACH=CONFIG]21447[/ATTACH]
Ian

Hi Ian,

have you started on the wine already -- Erath ?

http://www.erath.com/oregonPinot/

D

[Goldstar]

Not sure what you mean Paul,

it's basically the mod you buy from the suppliers. it uses the original ignition switch feed to the solenoid to operate the coil (86 & 85) in the relay and the relay contacts (30 & 87) then connect a better feed from the large cable on the starter to energize the solenoid.

Ian.

I was thinking switch rather than starter motor. Thanks for the diagram by the way. I have been looking at the book Drew recommended a while ago and things are becoming slightly clearer with electrics...

Paul