Starting problems

[badenstag]

Hi Stag-Community,

today it's the first sunny day in Germany since weeks, so decided to have a tour with the Stag.
But now, I'm frustrated because Stag won't start.

The starter motor doesn't turn. No click, just nothing. Dash lights are on.

What I checked is:
- Battery is charged
- I have 12,9V at the Solenoid battery terminal
- The two wires at the starter seem to be okay

Car has fitted a Lumenition and (unfortunately) an immobiliser (Sterling touch) with unknown wiring. I should also mention that I had the common starter click problem two weeks ago. But I was able to start after 3 - 4 attempts.

How should I proceed to fix the problem or at least to identify the problem.

Regards
Gerd

[grumpy2]

My sympathies. Last time we has a nice weekend here I was fixing my engine!

A complete guess but may be helpful. There's a good chance that the immobiliser uses a relay to provide power to the starter solenoid small spade terminal. It may be possible to bypass the relay and start the car, this could be done by a wire directly from the battery to the starter solenoid spade terminal. This should engage the solenoid and enable to start the engine. It should keep running when you disconnect the 'jump' wire. If it doesn't then my theory is wrong and more investigation is needed

Hope you manage to get it running and enjoy the sunshine

Gary

[badenstag]

My sympathies. Last time we has a nice weekend here I was fixing my engine!

A complete guess but may be helpful. There's a good chance that the immobiliser uses a relay to provide power to the starter solenoid small spade terminal. It may be possible to bypass the relay and start the car, this could be done by a wire directly from the battery to the starter solenoid spade terminal. This should engage the solenoid and enable to start the engine. It should keep running when you disconnect the 'jump' wire. If it doesn't then my theory is wrong and more investigation is needed

Hope you manage to get it running and enjoy the sunshine

Gary

Hi Gary,

thank you for answering. I have two terminals at the solenoid. One with a red wire (with a bigger connector) and one with a white wire (small connector). Which terminal should I connect directly with the battery? In the wiring diagram the red wire seems to be connected to the ignition switch.

Or do you mean the big terminal which is connected with the thick and black wire from the battery? The last one seems to be ok, because I checked with a test light.

Gerd

[Klaus Schlueter]

Gerd, the wiring colours on my starter motor are different: white/red, white/yellow and black. I can't help with your problem--electric is not my field. Maybe the pics help for your discussion.

Klaus.

BTW: you are lucky with sunshine. In Munich we have continuous torrential rain since now 65 hours and the collector in my garden has just reached 100 Liter/sqm!!

CCI02062013_0000.jpgStandardverdrahtung Anlasser .JPGAnschluß Relais an Starter.jpg

[GDPR]

Gerd...

You have a large bolt on terminal to the starter that goes to the battery - usually black, and permanent 12v. The other thinner braided bolt on terminal goes to the starter motor brushbox.

The bigger blade terminal should energise the starter solenoid and crank the starter. The small blade terminal is 12v cold start output to the ignition coil, bypassing the ballast resistor - should be white/yellow.

It is likely if you have 12v at the large (should be white/red but you appear to have red) terminal wire when the key is turned then the starter could be faulty. Tap the solenoid with a hammer with the key at crank position - if this works renew the solenoid.

If there is no 12v to the larger blade terminal when key is turned, then applying 12v from a battery source direct to the large blade should cause the starter to turn

Hope this is clear

Russ

[Barry Brown]

Hi Gerd
I had a similar problem recently and have a similar setup, Luminition and immobiliser.

As previous post have said check the starter by jumping the solenoid on the starter. I eventually found a number of faults.

1. The wiring in the engine bay had become brittle over the years and the insulation had cracked and the conductor started to break.
2. The ignition switch itself had started to come apart and was not always making contact (this usually will give other problems as well). I can be checked by physical examination. (I had one disintegrate on a trip to France and after limping the car home the switch collapsed into the foot well).
3. The ignition barrel has become encrusted with dirt and worn. Spray some WD40 into the barrel whist making sure all the upholstery is protected and then with the battery disconnected use the key to free the muck, remembering to push in the key at the appropriate times.
If the ignition switch has become loose on the barrel ( 2 very tiny screws) this can cause this problem.

To check the ignition switch, with covers removed, you can jump the switch brown to white/red with the ignition set to position 2 (normal driving)
I would recomend while testing out the switch to disconnect the fuel pump so as not to flood everything.

Hope this helps
Barry

[badenstag]

Hi again,

SUCCESS!

After measuring at both blade terminals of the starter solonoid and reconnecting them I was able to start
I think there was a loose or bad connection at the solonoid.

Thank you very much for your helpful advice!

Happy about that success I started for a short trip just to realize that I have a new and BIGGER PROBLEM!
After a few metres I got almost no braking effect. Such a sh...

Back in the garage, I've found that the brake fluid container is completely empty.
At a first superficial review, I've found no leaks. And the brake warning light wasn't on.

I guess that there is a coherence with the overhauling of the rear brakes and brake lines done by an
expensive workshop 2 months / 50 miles ago. I think I should give them a call.

Gerd

[GDPR]

I think that would be a sound idea!

[malc4d]

Hi all in Euroland, does anyone know of a friend wanting to buy a stag.... I have a maple brown 1975 lhd mod that l have owned since 1983 for sale ?

[Klaus Schlueter]

Hi malc4d,
I suggest you get into contact with the German "Triumph Stag Club Deutschland" - President Christian Schlüter - tr.stag.club @googlemail.com, see also website www.triumph-stag.de.
Klaus

[4x4]

Hi again,

SUCCESS!

After measuring at both blade terminals of the starter solonoid and reconnecting them I was able to start
I think there was a loose or bad connection at the solonoid.

Thank you very much for your helpful advice!

Happy about that success I started for a short trip just to realize that I have a new and BIGGER PROBLEM!
After a few metres I got almost no braking effect. Such a sh...

Back in the garage, I've found that the brake fluid container is completely empty.
At a first superficial review, I've found no leaks. And the brake warning light wasn't on.

I guess that there is a coherence with the overhauling of the rear brakes and brake lines done by an
expensive workshop 2 months / 50 miles ago. I think I should give them a call.

Gerd

Sounds like a Bentley - all go and no stop.
I knew they suffered from this in their LeMans days - but was a but surprised when I took a Continental GT out on a racetrack and discovered that Bentley don't seem to have learned the match "Go" with "Stop" in the best part of 100 years of making cars

[badenstag]

Hi all in Euroland, does anyone know of a friend wanting to buy a stag.... I have a maple brown 1975 lhd mod that l have owned since 1983 for sale ?

Hi,

That sounds good. A member of the TSCD is actually looking for a LHD Stag. How could he contact you? Because of your "Trial user" status in the forum, I can't send you a PM with his contact details.

Regards

Gerd

[badenstag]

I guess that there is a coherence with the overhauling of the rear brakes and brake lines done by an
expensive workshop 2 months / 50 miles ago. I think I should give them a call.

Hello

I just want to tell you the status regarding the brake.

The workshop noted that the brake master cylinder was leaking into the brake servo unit. Presumably this happened by pumping with the pedal during the bleeding of the brake system after overhauling the rear brakes.

Today, I could pick up the car. With much anticipation on a sunny weekend in the STAG, I drove home. About 5 KM before reaching the garage it smelled burned and in the mirror I saw smoke rising from the wheel area. I slowly drove home where I found both brake drums severely overheated. The brakes are probably blocked.

The workshop has once again picked up the car.

Regards

Gerd