Jammed ignition barrel - help!

[ChrisLD364]

Just broke down! No tools with me other than the big screw driver that I use to release the tonneau cover.
RAC say 3 hours so wife took it into her own hands and fixed it with Land Rover method 1.
Problem was a jammed ignition barrel. Key wouldn't turn at all. Not a bit of movement.
So there we were middle of no where roof down and it started to rain.
5 mins of bashing and twiddling and it freed. Cancel RAC and off.
Has anyone had problems with jammed barrel before?
Is it an easy job to change? Can I get a new barrel and door barrels that are "sweet"?
As always help and advice appreciated.
Engine running so I'll not turn it off until it's in the garage.

[Jools Stornoway]

Might just be a bit dry. Squirt a bit of lube in there, might do the trick and save you a replacement. cheers jools.

[Barry Brown]

Hi Chris
I have just replaced the lock on the Stag after it jamming on the drive.
I dismantled two locks to find out if I could replace the barrel. I decided that if the barrel is faulty then being able to extract it is very dificult even afer getting the lock pin out. I have just forked out £45 for a second hand lock in good condition and there is one on the internet for £75.
I have attached some pictures of the dismatled lock which shows the damage to the main mechanical lock piece. The white metal used has cracked then fractured and broken off, I assume with age. This might become a problem for all of us if it is indeed related to age.
I was fortunate that I had temporary shear bolts in after repairing damage to a previous lock when a garage broke the key off in the lock.
Also beware of new shear bolts and check their lenght, as one I purchased was too long and broke in the casting.
Hope the information helps you to make a decistion on how to proceed.
Barry

[ChrisLD364]

Hmmm..

This is sounding expensive!

Further investigation and I think I need a new steering lock assembly. Tony Hart has a used for £75.

Anyone used a non original one? I'm not bothered about the steering lock mechanism - that does not work anyway.

Barry - thanks for info. How long sheer bolts did you use and do you know what thread they are? I'd like to order parts tomorrow so I can fix next weekend. Otherwise I'm grounded!

[Barry Brown]

Hi Chris
The lock assembly was not designed to be serviceable as I found out trying to get the holding pin out.
I would try the people who are breaking Stags who should have the lock assembly. I got mine from a company called Wins International but I do not know if they have another.
Regarding the shear bolt, you drop the column from the clamp turn it over and tap them round with a punch. I cannot remember the thread as I made the temporay ones at the factory. I have the old ones and a photo which I can post. I will try to remember to post all the info when I get to work.
I do not know of any equivilant locks.
If the Key still turns and is removable, keep hold of the broken assembly as we might all be into refurbishment someday.

[ChrisLD364]

Thanks Barry,

I've got enquiries out to breakers to see what's available. I've also asked Tony Hart what condition his is - but realistically it'll be about as used as mine is.

So I'm thinking to fit a universal one. Would prefer to be original but I do require reliability (OK I know I shouldn't expect that from a 42 year old British Leyland car).

I can get universal ones for under a tenner. Would have to fabricate something to reduce the hole diameter on the plastic housing or drill a hole elsewhere. Anyone ever done this for a mark I? I think the wiring is different to later cars. I haven't checked the wiring against the service manual yet but guess that a 7 terminal universal switch should be able to do it.

On the plus side I've now removed the actual starter switch and can now start the car with a screwdriver. Hope I don't get stopped - difficult to explain that to the Traffic Officer!

Thanks

Chris

[mike@thenook]

Chris,

is it worth asking Chris Witor as I am pretty sure this part is the same as the Triumph 2000 etc and possibly the Dolomites;

Just a thought

Good luck getting it fixed

Cheers

[ChrisLD364]

Thanks for that. Yes he has one listed for £30 + VAT. Part ordered.

Part number is 160337. I've searched all over the place and there's clearly not many about and only ones from broken cars. I think this might become a problem for all of us as breakages occur. I don't think I'll fit with sheer bolts though. If this one breaks on the road (as happened yesterday) then you're stuck unless you've got an extractor with you.

Thanks for all the advice. If anyone's going to Silverstone then give me a shout. I'm there the full weekend.

[Barry Brown]

Hi Chris
Glad you have found one and at a better price.
The shear bolt is 3/8" UNC but has a shoulder that goes into a recess. The length of the thread to shoulder should be 20mm.
I have attached a picture of the three bolts to show the problem.
Since my extractor broke off in the remains of the bolt I have either have to core the old bolt out or replace the casting on the refurbished rack for Diana's auto which I am rebuilding, Oh Joy.
I have a couple of used shear bolts with saw cuts in the top which were supplied with the replacement. If they are of any use to you, PM me with your address and I will post them to you.
Barry

[jbuckl]

ebay seller, id Wilmot (or similar) sold me a matching lockset at a very attractive price, even included the shear bolts.

drill out to save casting.....bolts are easily available.

[ChrisLD364]

Thanks to all for your help on this one.

Got a spare from Chris Witor and Barry posted me his spare bolts.

Done the job tonight. As always it's fun getting bolts out that aren't supposed to come out but my old extractor tools worked well once i'd got a decent hole drilled.

I could then see that my old unit had been played about with at some point. The cover plate wasn't there and the steering lock bolt wasn't spring loaded. New one was an easy fit and I'm back able to start with a key instead of a screwdriver.

I managed to fix the indicator cancelling mechanism while I was in there. Somehow or other the steering column is 90 degrees out so the catch was out of position. It's not located properly now though so I'll have to see how it goes.

That's one job done. I wonder what'll happen next..................

Chris L-D

[Stagsongas]

I've worried about this happening, a typical Willmot Breedon product, and to be fair, after 30 or 40 years it will wear out one day. A similar lock was/is fitted to Mk1 Range Rovers and Disco's (but it does not fit the Stag) and is well known for internal collapse and a refusal to work. There is almost certaily a lock form another BL model which is identical, a lot of sharing went on, i.e. the Mk1 Range lock was the same as that fitted to the the Mk1 Metro.

The shear bolts are quite easy to undio with a centre punch, especially of the column is dropped lower and to be honest, shearing off new bolts is not the way to go and does nothing for security. Thieves just snap the end of the barrell off using a long piece of tube if they want the car. An immobiliser is a better precuation although those can go wrong too.

Given that new replacements may not be available and used ones erm, used, I wonder what I'd do. I think I'd gut out the orginal, disable it, leave it looking as was and then fit a hidden switch elsewhere.

Regards

Steve

[ChrisLD364]

Some wise thoughts there from Steve me thinks.

I wasn't that worried to have the steering lock as it wasn't working on the old unit. And I am worried about it happening again - the replacement has come off a Dolomite or 1500 and must be similar age and could easily have sat in a scrapyard for 20 years (or more).

So I'll go out armed with a good set of screwdrivers and the knowledge of how to bypass. I didn't use the shear bolts and just used the ones that Barry sent to me. They were shear bolts with the head already taken off and then a slot sawn in. So if it happens again then I'll get home.

And if it does go again then I'll follow Steve's advice. Disable the steering lock and bypass the ignition key. I'd probably then put a generic ignition key some more hidden and leave the old in place just to confuse the potential thief.

Once again thanks to everyone who helped.

Chris L-D

[Stagsongas]

Some wise thoughts there from Steve me thinks.

I wasn't that worried to have the steering lock as it wasn't working on the old unit. And I am worried about it happening again - the replacement has come off a Dolomite or 1500 and must be similar age and could easily have sat in a scrapyard for 20 years (or more).

So I'll go out armed with a good set of screwdrivers and the knowledge of how to bypass. I didn't use the shear bolts and just used the ones that Barry sent to me. They were shear bolts with the head already taken off and then a slot sawn in. So if it happens again then I'll get home.

And if it does go again then I'll follow Steve's advice. Disable the steering lock and bypass the ignition key. I'd probably then put a generic ignition key some more hidden and leave the old in place just to confuse the potential thief.

Once again thanks to everyone who helped.

Chris L-D

If you do fit a second and covert lock/switch somehere else Chris, you will avoid future problems with the orignal type lock wearing out AND have an immobilser that is more reliable that many of the modern electronic items. Sounds like a plan to me!

Another plan is in mind;

I'm going to move my battery to the space under the hood storage area. A bigger battery will go in there, be less awkward to secure and access although it will need a long, thick positive cable going up front. But the best part is that a manual type battery isolator could then be fitted inside the passenger compartment, not under the bonnet like mine is now. If that were hidden well, only a rudimentary ignition switch and lock would be needed, the car could be easily immobilised and I'll be more likey to use the immobiliser if I don't have to open the bonnet.

Steering locks, as I say, proved to be useless when the theives learned how to snap the barrel off and use any old screwdriver to get the steering lock released, so an original replacement becomes less attractive all of a sudden.

If I do find another BL model (not Triumph) that had the same lock fitted I will post it here. Who knows, there may be a heap of new ones sitting on a shelf somewhere because no-one wants to restore some of the less appealing models. i.e the Sherpa Van, which just might have been the same lock....

Regards

Steve

[Bob Heritage]

One thing to be aware of if you disconnect the steering lock is the fact that is your insurance invalid for a payout? My current insurance (club scheme) says that the immobiliser should be operative at all times. Another thing is it not required for current MOT regs?