bad noise - Summer fun ended?

[alan_thomas]

Last weekend a trouble free 350 mile trip to the national then yesterday almost home from work and the most horrendous noise from the engine. Turned it off quickly then gingerly started it. It settled into an even idle but the noise was loud and a greater frequency than the RPM. really loud and best described as a loud 'Sawing' but continous. :shock:

Used a long screwdriver up to the ear and listerned all around, not bearing noise, not coming from the timing chest, too fast to be coming from a valve. I could swear it was coming from the carbs area. Took the air filter completely off and no difference to the volume/ I am beginning to think it has the frequency of something interfering with the impellor in the pump.

Don't like to run it for for than a few seconds as it sounds fairly terminal. Hsve spent many, many years fixing, stripping and rebuilding engines but it has me stumped.

Any suggestions folks, loud noise faster than the RPM seems to come from the centre of the vee area and sounds almost external (def no big ends or pinking)

Looks like I may be building up my spare engine sooner than I planned! I'll pull the pump tomorrow unless anyone has any ideas.

Alan

[RogerP]

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Alan

Couldbe the viscous coupling, there are several ways of testing first check if there is any play?second my preferred method is rather dodgy, (not really recomended but I have done it several times and still got all my fingers)and that is get a piece of string and loop it round one of the fan blades then holding both ends one in each hand, but just between thumb and forefinger this is if anything goes wrong you can just let it go, then get somebody with quick reactions to start engine but must be ready to turn it of straight away, if the coupling is stuffed it will either go away or get worse and you will feel it trying to grab when it makes the noise.

The other thing to check and I would do this first is have a look at your alternator pulley and make sure it's not rubbing on the bottom hose clip.

Roger

[al-stag]

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Water Pump bearings Alan?

Al

[redstag]

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Maybe something has come adrift in the distributor?

Pete

[Andrew S]

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Jackshaft?

[alan_thomas]

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well summer fun is over for the moment! Water pump gear stripped and jumping teeth, jackshaft a lot better but still damaged enough to change it. Rebuilt and fitted the pumplast year with a spare pump/ shaft assy I already had. Clearance pump cover to top of pumphad been set correctly and there was no wear on the jackshaft when I changed the pump. The pump shaft is as soft as s**t!

Bits of mashed metal loose in the engine and a change of jackshaft looks like my spare engine complete with EFi that I have been building up is going to come earlier than projected.

Attached pic shows mashed shaft with good spare as comparison. - Alan

[mjheathcote]

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That's depressing Alan

Even though I am not a supporter of the electric water pump route, if that happened to mine I could soon change my mind.

Cheers,

Mike.

[alan_thomas]

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mjheathcote wrote:

That's depressing Alan

Even though I am not a supporter of the electric water pump route, if that happened to mine I could soon change my mind.

Cheers,

Mike.

Mike, I'm already thinking of ways I could make up an external, belt driven, mechanical water pump. Not a fan of EWPs

- Alan

[mjheathcote]

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alan_thomas wrote:

Mike, I'm already thinking of ways I could make up an external, belt driven, mechanical water pump. Not a fan of EWPs

- Alan

Its's been done before, infact if I remember correctly a mechanical water pump option was reported in the club mag not that long ago. Triumph straight 6 pump?

[Arbman Al]

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Hi Alan,

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Just holler if you need the hoist back, and I will run it round to you.

Thanks, Al.

[DJT]

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Oh, Dear Alan.

This brings back nasty memories for me from my trip to the Triumph Forum at Brooklands. I was fortunate in that I had another, known good, water pump to rebuild and got a good, used jackshaft from another member. I stripped out the front of the engine so that I could give everything a good flush through. Rebuilt, new oil and filter, run up to temp, stopped and drained, new oil and filter, run fora fewmiles, repeat, and again around 150-ish. I got away with it, but there is no guarantee you will get everything out. I had a magnetic sump plug which caught a lot of swarf.

Dave

[stustag]

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Oh dear Alan that is real nasty, further to my comments in the SOCTFL head post I think the next item they should look at is a reliable manufacture for the pump and jackshaft as matched items.

It seems to me that there is obviously quality control problems with the current supply and possible with the product produced shortly after the Stag finished?

Does anyone know if the pump on the dolomite/TR7 is the same and does it have these problems as well? If so then the demand for a better quality item(s) would be greater and more cost effective.

EWP's done float my boat either but the thought of having an engine rebuilt for instance at a cost of up to £3k then this happening is eye watering to say the least!

Stuart

[DJT]

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stustag wrote:

Does anyone know if the pump on the dolomite/TR7 is the same and does it have these problems as well? If so then the demand for a better quality item(s) would be greater and more cost effective.

Stuart,

Dolomite/TR7 pumps are the same. SAAB 99s had the basically the same engine and they, therefore, have the same problem. I believe there is information on SAAB websites about EWPs as well.

Dave

[al-stag]

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Alan,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. That third pulley could be coming into play. Don't know what to suggest as a circulator though. Something with pretty good bearings

Al

[alan_thomas]

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do you ever get that 'deja vu' feeling

http://stagownersclub.mywowbb.com/vi...nal+water+pump

In that thread I wrote :-

I really think the current pump is a useless design that puts further load on the already marginal timing chain arrangement and is in the wrong position in the cooling circuit to avoid critical failure of the cooling when the coolant level drops, In my opinion the best solution would be to remove the existing pump and fit a core plug as per installation link then fit an engine driven mech pump in the bottom hose.

Time, I think, to stop talking and do something about it. Although I basically dislike the idea of anelectric pump as a primary pump I must admit the kit from EJ Ward is looking very tempting at this moment! - Alan