Stiff water pump

[Gresley]

Hi

With a little help from the Forum, I have now managed to get my water pump out. The gears look fine but when I hold the cage, the spindle is vey stiff to turn, and there is a metel aon metal rubbing noise (not bearings). My question is, are Stag pumps always this tight, or should they turn freely like the Triumph6 cyl water pump? I'd be grateful for any advice on this one as this is my first experience of the Stag pump!

regards

Brian

[Sheepdip]

imported post

It should turn freely. However depends on how you got the pump out as I have found it can twist in the cage if levered out and then become harder to turn. If its out I assume you're overhauling it anyway with new bearing so stiffness is not an issue. Don't forget to check condition of underside of impeller - very worth refacing if any pitting to help sealing.

[Arbman Al]

imported post

I have been doing some further engine stripping today, namely the water pump and jack shaft. The water pump came out but left the 'cage' in - how does the cage come out, or is it not supposed to?

Jack shaft came out fine, and does not look worn at all - 86,882 miles

Going through the receipts for the car, it looks as though the previous owner bought a water pump back in 1984 - there is a name of Zephyr on it - for £32.50

The earliest MOT cert I have is June 1985 which shows a mileage of 72,397, so I have to assume the water pump has covered 14,485 miles minimum.

Hopefully this pump/jack shaft combination should be ok:?I have a water pump overhaul kit, but are there any particular bits I should be looking at for wear?

Rgds......Al.

[alan_thomas]

imported post

I decided to reuild my pump to get me back on the road this summer and leave the rebuilt engine for the winter.

So have spent a few hours refurbing a pump. The answer to 'Do they turn freely' is no, they not not 'spin' there are several reasons they feel 'stiff' firstly the oil seal adds a small amount of resistance then the spring loadedgraphite seal onto the underside of the impeller add a lot more. So even when you rebuild it with a kit it does offer a fair amount of resistance but it should be smoth and not 'notchy'

I chose to use an upgraded seal supplied by 'L D Parts' this is similar to the original seal but has a polished ceramic ring that you fit to the underside of the impeller. This means the graphite seal runs on a polished ceramic surchase instead of the rough underside of the cast iron impeller this can only reduce wear and the incidents of leaks. It does mean you have to setup the impeller in a lather and cut a recess for the ceramic ring to fit in however you cannot fit a repair kit without refacing the impeller in a lathe. Replacing the seal and letting it run on a pitted and corroded impeller is a waste of time.

The pic shows an impeller as pulled from a pump with all the pitting and corrosion and a refaced impeller from the pump that failed from shaft failure within 1000 miles

[alan_thomas]

imported post

2nd pic shows upgraded seal with ceramic ring

[alan_thomas]

imported post

you need t ocut a reces to fit the ring.

[alan_thomas]

imported post

The ceramic ring is a good fit but it is secured with silicone sealant and now the graphite seal runs in th ealmost frictionless hard wearing, non corroding ceramic ring. I think this seal it the dog's ****** !

- Alan

[Arbman Al]

imported post

alan_thomas wrote:

The ceramic ring is a good fit but it is secured with silicone sealant and now the graphite seal runs in th ealmost frictionless hard wearing, non corroding ceramic ring. I think this seal it the dog's ****** !

- Alan

Hi Alan,

That looks a 'proper job' :dude:- hope it sorts out your problems.

Do you have any tips on my earlier post in this thread on how to get the 'cage' out - it did not come out with the rest of the pump

Rgds....Al.

[Arbman Al]

imported post

alan_thomas wrote:

The ceramic ring is a good fit but it is secured with silicone sealant and now the graphite seal runs in th ealmost frictionless hard wearing, non corroding ceramic ring. I think this seal it the dog's ****** !

- Alan

Hi Alan,

Just a thought - if the ceramic ring sits proud of the existing seat, does this not mean the pump cover would foul the impellor more than normal when bolted down?

Rgds...Al

[alan_thomas]

imported post

Al, I measured the depth of the impeller and machined out a recess to put the ceramic face at the same height as the original cast iron face. The picture was taken before cutting to the correct depth.
With regard to how to get the brass cage out, yes it will need to come out to rebuild the pump and I have the same problem in my spare engine. If you can wait a bit I will make up something to pull it out I need to do it for my own engine but it is down the 'to do' list. - Alan

[Arbman Al]

imported post

I had a feeling you would have already thought of that:dude:

I am off on holiday end of the week,so not expecting to get much more done to my engine for a couple of weeks.

Rgds.....Al.

[Sheepdip]

imported post

arbman101 wrote:

Do you have any tips on my earlier post in this thread on how to get the 'cage' out - it did not come out with the rest of the pump

Rgds....Al.

You need to get the cage out but its not difficult. In my case I madeup a puller - a piece of right angle that fits across pump face, drill 2 small holes positioned just less than the diameter of the bottom of cage then use 2 small carriage screws upside down with nuts. The head of the screws wedge against underside of cage and tighten the nuts to pull out.

[Sheepdip]

imported post

alan_thomas wrote:

The ceramic ring is a good fit but it is secured with silicone sealant and now the graphite seal runs in th ealmost frictionless hard wearing, non corroding ceramic ring. I think this seal it the dog's ****** !

- Alan

This is a new and novel idea, hadn'tcome acrossbefore. Just abit wary on the effectiveness of silicone sealer in a heated and wet enviroment- do LD supply it?