Mondeo Diesel Stag Under Threat?

[DJT]

Could this take the diesel Stag off the road?

http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk/blog/index.php/2014/06/10/rac-calls-for-scrappage-scheme-for-dirty-old-diesel-cars/

[mike@thenook]

Another government con to pull people out of perfectly roadworthy cars and spend hard earned cash on silly cars like the Prius - My Father in Law got conned on the last event when he ditched his (only slightly rust tinged) 53,000 mile Merc C180 for a £2,000 allowance against a new Toyota Yaris.
Going green = huge waste!

[Seaking]

OH Hell my pug 306 td is only 17 years old still no where near the 40 years req for free road tax

[Staggard]

Perhaps some clever fellow can answer this, The low polluting cars that are replacing the old higher polluting cars is all very well, but how much pollution is created making those new replacement low polluting cars. Answers on a postcard please

[jagorstag]

Well, I suppose it's all a bit of a scam really, most likely the car lobby wanting to sell more new cars and what better way to do this than make the government introduce various "green" schemes to try and force perfectly good cars off the road, as well as ensure that more people take out more loans in order to finance the new car... This way even the various financial institutions win!!

If you are buying a new car you would most likely be well able to negotiate something close to a £2000 discount if you shop around a bit and play hardball, making these scrappage schemes pretty much pointless.

Just my tuppence...

Cheers,
Joakim

[Davenott]

Perhaps some clever fellow can answer this, The low polluting cars that are replacing the old higher polluting cars is all very well, but how much pollution is created making those new replacement low polluting cars. Answers on a postcard please

The answer is a massive amount.
A few years ago, when they looked at energy use and pollution involved in making, running and disposing of a car, and also taking into account how long the car will last and recyclability, the winner was a Jeep!
Dave.

[jagorstag]

The answer is a massive amount.
A few years ago, when they looked at energy use and pollution involved in making, running and disposing of a car, and also taking into account how long the car will last and recyclability, the winner was a Jeep!
Dave.

Which just goes to show that these scrappage schemes have nothing to do with being green, and everything to do with selling new cars, which brings in lots of tax revenue for the government...

Perhaps the Green Party (or whatever they may be called nowadays) would do well to promote the use of a car for as long as possible, instead of this ongoing nonsense about buying new (and admittedly more frugal in the short-term) cars every three years and constantly insisting on ever increasing fuel taxation in the name of the environment... A scheme to subsidise better maintenance of older cars instead to make sure they are as good and safe as they can be would make more environmental sense....

Cheers,
Joakim

[73stagman]

The comment was made by some numpty in the RAC foundation
The article, when first relased last week, went on to say that there is no intention from the government or any of its ministers to re introduce any scrappage scheme for older diesel cars.

[mike@thenook]

It is interesting when compared to the antiques business (which I am involved with from an insurance persepective) where there is a well organised body of antique dealers promoting the selling and purchase of antiques as truly "green" rather than those selling new/repro stuff (particularly furniture) which (a) has meant yet another tree being culled for furniture (b) the newer stuff often is not much less than an antique (c) it certainly won't last and (d) has no history at all.
Old is beautifull and certainly better for the environment overall - forget the short sighted lobby'ists

[jagorstag]

Mike, I fully agree with you. Whatever happened to the mantra about recycling and upcycling and all that? That seems to always be completely forgotten about when talking about cars, and of course lots of other consumer products as well.

It really does infuriate me when all these various industry groups use and abuse environmental concerns and issues in order to shift a few more units, all under the guise of it being the "green" thing to do.

[Stagsongas]

Which just goes to show that these scrappage schemes have nothing to do with being green, and everything to do with selling new cars, which brings in lots of tax revenue for the government...

Perhaps the Green Party (or whatever they may be called nowadays) would do well to promote the use of a car for as long as possible, instead of this ongoing nonsense about buying new (and admittedly more frugal in the short-term) cars every three years and constantly insisting on ever increasing fuel taxation in the name of the environment... A scheme to subsidise better maintenance of older cars instead to make sure they are as good and safe as they can be....

Cheers,
Joakim

How true!

The least polluting cars of all are LPG converted petrol engined versions by a long way, but successive Govenrments have done all they can to push people into dirty, particulate and ultra-fine particle producing Diesels (and then hiked the price ) whilst doing almost nothing to promote the greenest fuel by far. Then, to cover their mistake by utilising European directives, a quite stupid 'stick a plaster on it' measure was taken - The particulate filter. A nice, costly box of deferred pollution that is.

My cars are routinely MOT'd on both fuels by choice. During the last test the Stag produced 0.239% CO which is neither too weak (Stoichiometric mix of LPG is 15.3 to 1, not 14.7 to 1 as for petrol ) nor anything like the 4.5% CO it would be allowed to belch out on petrol.

The car's CO emissions have therefore been reduced by a factor of 20, and with no ultra-fines or particualtes to speak of. If the Government genuinely wanted to reduce emissions, the orginal Scrappage scheme along with this new Diesel intiative should never have taken place, niether should the encouragement of Diesel for car use. It would have been better in environmental and ecomomic terms to carry on with subsidised of LPG conversion as in other Countries, but dumped here circa 2005.

Returning to the certified and repeatable Stag result, even when applied to this classic car it knocks the Hybrids and even the Electrics to bits, especially when people begin to realise that to run a dedicated, Electric only car anywhere in UK, someone has to burn coal elsewhere. Even the end-of-life battery disposal and replacement for an Electric or Hybrid (on average, a set every 3 years) is more polluting and ineffcient in terms of energy usage than keeping older cars on the road just as they are. And that's without considering the ways in which the charge electricity is generated. along with the resulting, added pollution.

So - I fully agree with the theme, Governments do not make decisions on emissions using environmentally sound, sustanable or factually relaible information, they do it on one basis alone - MONEY, and the more their decisions produce for the Exchequer, the better.

I can hear cynical thoughts being thought. Most will think I'm trying to sell conversions. Not at all. What I have to say is mentioned to add weight to the theme, and I could not care less if I never convert another Stag for anyone else. I'm here to share the enjoyment of the car. As some found in my early days on this forum, I do not mix busness with pleasure. I'm not here to run an LPG 'pick your Brains so I can DIY mine' service either.

Regards

Steve

[38rover]

Perhaps some clever fellow can answer this, The low polluting cars that are replacing the old higher polluting cars is all very well, but how much pollution is created making those new replacement low polluting cars. Answers on a postcard please

Never mind old cars if the Gov. is that concerned how many old ships and aircraft will they scrap cars make a very small contribution in the order of things but are always a target for officials!!

[73stagman]

There is no government scheme to scrap diesel cars.... what is the fuss about?
A professor of some NON GOVERNMENT organsiation suggested that the government should "consider" a scheme and people get all fussed

[Stagsongas]

It is interesting when compared to the antiques business (which I am involved with from an insurance persepective) where there is a well organised body of antique dealers promoting the selling and purchase of antiques as truly "green" rather than those selling new/repro stuff (particularly furniture) which (a) has meant yet another tree being culled for furniture (b) the newer stuff often is not much less than an antique (c) it certainly won't last and (d) has no history at all.
Old is beautifull and certainly better for the environment overall - forget the short sighted lobby'ists

Mike,

That fits in with my own Environmental views so well, it's like a breath of Mother Nature's finest.

We don't need any more furniture, secondhand and Antique shops are full of it. 'Fashion' is not environmentally friendly. Stop making new furniture, then no-one needs to chop down trees.

The 'need' for House buliding is another myth. Newspapers and Estate Agent's windows are full of unsold homes with up to 1 million empty homes at any one time (Source; C4 'The Great Property Scandal). The same goes for cars or anything else. We have to learn to live by having less new stuff, and if we do that, we'll need less money, chop down less trees and gobble up less resources.

'Green' taxes are quite misguided too. Increase the tax burden on a man that makes chairs for a living, and he'll have to chop down more trees and make more chairs to pay the tax. This spreads all through the consumer chain.

If we want to change things we have to restructure everything using a clean sheet approach. If done correctly, no-one need do without, just waste less. At the head of it all is the most wasteful and blameworthy edifice - Government as we know it. That has to change first.

Regards

Steve

[jagorstag]

There is no government scheme to scrap diesel cars.... what is the fuss about?
A professor of some NON GOVERNMENT organsiation suggested that the government should "consider" a scheme and people get all fussed

Hi Neil,

You are of course right, but I think this fuss is more about a growing frustration with the political hierarchy's pretence in general of making "green" decisions when it really is just about the money, as well as it tends to be the motorists who get beaten over the head with various environmental accusations. There is obviously some truth in that, but these "green" arguments seem to without fail omit the bigger picture and just go for the easy targets, i.e. the common motorist and taxpayer.

Then again all these harebrained and lazy schemes usually start from somewhere...

Cheers,
Joakim