Oh no the cursed head gasket!

[Stagsongas]

David,

My car suffered a coolant pump failure, which crunched the pump and Jackshaft teeth and jammed it all up. As the JS was not then rotating, the timing chains slipped a full 180 degrees (chains still being crank driven of course) and the engine just stopped. No overheating, no smoke, it just stopped.

I'm still amazed how I got way without any valve damage at all (equates to a lottery win) but I toook a different path when deciding how to repair it all. I removed (and will never replace) the original coolant pump. I fitted an external pump instead. There are two basic types, electric and mechanical. This is something you might what to think about, as once the potential problem of the coolant pump causing similar problems in the future has been removed, there's one less reason for your Stag to let you down, and an external pump is a darned sight easier to replace when required.

Good Luck

Steve

[Richard G]

Hi
I did wonder that at first but no!
Just got an update from rac and another 2 hour wait. Police have been very efficient however, pushing me further in and now as I type more police have arrived...very popular here.... they're now admiring the car..

Mine broke down last weekend, fuel problem, had to have it recovered. Waited not long and recovery turned up , but were looking for another Stag nearby! Had to wait a further 1 hr + for my recovery. Been using the Super grade petrol last couple of fills,maybe that cleans up all the rubbish in pipes?

RG

[David Lloyd]

I looked through the history of the car last night as Trevor at Favershams was suspicious of its past. In the 1st 10 years the heads were re-skimmed twice; Viscous coupling once; 3 sets of timing chains; Transmission cooler once; Water pump 3 times; Oil pump 4 times; Jack Shaft and dowel once; Crank and bearings once; Line bore block (whatever that is) once; Cam followers and new valves all round..... am I selling the car to you!

From 1990 to 2008 the history is thin apart from the owners. Since then she's had new rad, water pump (again) and the usual stuff.

The car has a heritage certificate showing the original engine, but given its past I might forego the originality and swap out the block as something's inherently not right.

[mike@thenook]

Hi David,
pm sent

[flying farmer]

What mileage has it covered?

I would hazard a guess that it was built with a good dollop of casting sand left in the water and oil ways just like the engine in my project Stag.

The head skims are nothing unusual given the cars overheating potential, but 4 oil pumps and three timing chain sets along with the crank failure and cam buckets suggest plenty of sand circulating.

The jackshaft bore on my project cars engine is also scored due to sand, and it has had a replacement jackshaft, it was the polish marks on the shaft that made me realise there were wear rings in the jackshaft bearing but not bad enough to warrant machining work. This was on an engine that was bored 40 thou oversize, had new heads (mk2 on a mk1 engine, and several crank grinds, and I still got an eggcup full of sand out of the jackshaft gallery, it had obviously never been cleaned out in any of the rebuilds!!!!!

Quite honestly 4 water pumps in that period of time (and it sounds like the last one has just gone big time) would suggest something else isn't right. Most likely the bush that supports the bottom of the water pump shaft wasn't replaced which means the pump shaft would not run true and would destroy the gear teeth pretty quickly.

Having been on this forum for several years now it seems like the Stag water pump has caused more engine failures than all the other so called weak spots of the engine. It certainly killed mine with no warning, and I had a very lucky escape with a Dolomite Sprint engine which uses the same pump (heard it rattling at idle, teeth nearly stripped)

The line bore mentioned is generally needed following major crank failure which results in the main bearing caps fracturing, replacing the caps means the whole block and bearing cap assembly needed to rebored to the correct dimensions to take the crankshaft main bearings.

At the very least I would want a total stripdown and clean out given the engines history.

Neil

[David Lloyd]

Finally got back to the car today.
From various thoughts I looked at the engine. One idea was that the fault may have been the inlet manifold. Looking around them there does appear to be dark stains around where they meet the head.
I checked the rad and it took about 8+ pints to fill!
I then started the engine and she ran straight away. I only ran her for about 20 seconds just in case. She didn't sound too bad but I didn't try any high revs.

So knowing that the jack shaft is linked to the distributor would the car start if this had gone....and where did the 8 pints go..I didn't stop in a cloud of steam! The oil level has dropped to minimum marker.
Thanks Dave

[David Lloyd]

Next update....
I've added the antifreeze and topped up the rad having drained it due to the pure water added.
Checked the plugs which are a little oily but not soaking.
Started her up again and topped up again to get the air out.
She's now sounding fine. A bit tappetty but she always was at the back.
She's holding temp and idles fine. Oil pressure at 50.
I am curious now as to the issue.
Could I have caught her in time before substantial damage?
I will get her looked at professionally as there must be a reason to loose so much coolant.
Dave

[wilf]

Wonder if a piston or to started two "nip" in the bore? i.e. a partial seizure due to high temps?

I fear you have not yet got to the bottom of this, the water and oil went somewhere.

[brooklands green]

David you haven't had car long is it worth talking to the trader who sold you the car.
Glyn

[Bob Heritage]

As Glyn said, approach the trader that you bought the car from first. If that fails, I would start with the water pump and check the teeth there, you don't want a lot of swarf floating about the engine. Are the timing chain cogs OK then check to see if you have a cam shaft binding, that could put added resistance to the timing etc if the head(s) have overheated in the past and ' twisted'. Something caused the problem and I would say it could be the cooling system. Finally get a compression test.

[David Lloyd]

Thanks for the comments. I don't think I would go back to the trader as it is out of warranty now and he was defensive enough when I had oil dumping from the auto box.
I have now driven the car from Cambridge back down to London with nothing amiss.
Thinking about what has transpired I think i might have worked out what has happened.
The car has a weep from the water pump that leaves some coolant in the vee. I had this problem with my previous one but it was very small amount and I eventually got it fixed. I think the weep on my current one must be much greater in comparison and I hadn't checked it for a while. I think the engine got to critical when it got too low and the excess heat created the onset of seizure. When I stopped the car immediately the oil that may have been forced onto the vee or was already there from work done previously was hot enough to start to smoke.
I'll get the car checked over ASAP and hopefully I have been spared the worst by the patron saints of Stags! As Hettiherald said "think the worst and hope for the best"
Thanks again for all your support
Dave

[mike@thenook]

Sounds like that could be feasible, keep it going gently and keep checking the water and oil.
Good luck!

[jleyton]

Yeah, and good luck from me too

Cheers

Julian