Swiss / Italian Lakes Trip

[alistair260661]

I'm planning a trip from Scotland (in Lavidia) down through France, Switzerland to Lake Garda in Italy (in the summer ahead). Does anyone have a "good" route via the Alpine passes? Have been looking at the maps and the list of passes - I want to do the best ones, but am getting a bit confused on which to go for (without ending up going round in circles and being too ambitious).

Does anyone have a suitable route?

Planning to go Hull / Zeebrugger therefore I'm flexible on the routes into Switzerland, but I end up at Lake Garda (villa booked) - route back flexible too.

Planning on half a week in either direction (so a night on the ferry, and 2 nights in Europe in each direction), then a week on / around Lake Garda

Any advice / routes / ?

[Guest]

That sounds ace, can you include the Stelvio pass? That's on my bucket list! Can't help with the route thought sorry

Jason

[wilf]

Did that earlier this year. Got a toll tag for France, but that doesn't work in Italy.

Used the Frejus tunnel. Easy crossing and avoids Switzerland.

Excellent drive, empty French autoroutes a sheer pleasure, apart from fine- hungry Gendarmarie. Do NOT exceed the limit by more than 40 kph, as that turns a 90 Euro fine into a potential on the spot car confiscation.
They use a zero tolerance to speeding, no 10%+2mph like here.

Two day journey from Leicester to Garda, tunnel crossing, stopped overnight in France in Ibis hotels - clean and cheap.

[jleyton]

If you do go through Switzerland I think they still have the fairly hefty motorway levy.

It used to be a bit like a tax disc (remember them ? ) which lasts for a full year but you have to buy, even if you're only on a motorway for a short journey on one day - How do I know ?........

However, my experience was a long time ago so things may have changed. For years since then I visited Switzerland annually but went by plane and used taxis instead

Have a great trip and keep us updated with your planning and journey.

Cheers

Julian

[Goldstar]

Sounds great Alistair. The Swiss don't even allow the 10% + 2kph - just don't speed. Locals budget for about 2000 CH Fr per year in speeding fines according to a friend of ours who lives in Zug. The 'vignette is about €34 (40 francs) according to the information here http://www.autobahnen.ch/index.php?lg=001&page=014

Wasn't there a thread earlier this year (and a magazine article) about a similar trip - can't remember who it was now

Have fun, I hear the Stelvio pass is amazing and IIRC there are some other tolls on the alpine roads but I'm not 100% sure.

Paul

[grahamm]

Hi,

I have traveled in/through Switzerland by car several times in the last few years. A vignette (sticker) is required to use motorways in Switzerland. You do not need a vignette if you avoid using the motorways but you will need to allow much more time to travel!

You can pre-buy the vignette on line from

https://www.swisstravelsystem.co.uk/

and I have done this in the past. On one occasion I have entered Switzerland from France via unmanned border points (non-motorway) where there was no facility to purchase the vignette and then required use of motorway almost immediately in Switzerland and I guess I would have been stopped unless I had the correct 'tax' paid sticker.

One word of warning - I was merrily travelling in Switzerland thinking what a car friendly country it was with no speed cameras showing up on my Sat Nav. WRONG. A local pointed out to me that it is illegal to have speed camera warnings showing up on your Sat Nav and mine was defaulted to be legal and proper. Of course - I never exceed the speed limit.

If you have the time I do recommend that you stop off at Mulhouse (France near to Swiss border) to visit the France Nation Car Museum at 15 rue de l’épée 68 100 Mulhouse (also know as Schlumpf collection). I could have spent two days there - alas I only had a couple of hours.

Graham

[jleyton]

If you have the time I do recommend that you stop off at Mulhouse (France near to Swiss border) to visit the France Nation Car Museum at 15 rue de l’épée 68 100 Mulhouse (also know as Schlumpf collection). I could have spent two days there - alas I only had a couple of hours.

Graham

Yep, totally agree - brilliant place and an amazing story behind it. I was lucky to have visited it first only a couple of years after it was 'discovered' and it was mind-boggling. Sadly, it has become much more commercialised since then but definitely worth a visit if you can.

Cheers

Julian

[Guest]

In France there is an allowance before you are nabbed for speeding - 5 kph up to 100 and 5% thereafter. And Wilf is right about the 40 kph excess risk of confiscation of driving licence. On the motorways that would be 170 kph and anyone who does that deserves it. However, it can be quite easy to zoom into a 50 kph zone at 90 + without noticing, so you have to be careful going through small towns and villages. Remember that the rectangular town name signs with the red band round them also serve as start and finish of 50 kph zones.

[Steve JP]

If you plan to take in Stelvio, try to avoid the weekend as it's always busy with motorcyclists who are manic! We were held up behind a motorcycle fatality on it a couple of years ago. I did it in the Stag and it was a great trip and the sausages they sell at the top in a bun are a great snack! No worries of overheating either, the air up there is cold!

[MLCstag]

I'll be on the Hull to Zeebruger ferry on June 18th going to Switzerland and returning on 3rd July. Haven't finalised the route yet. Any overlap of dates? if so look out for a Stag and Mercedes 500SL.

Brian

[alistair260661]

thanks for the responses guys - I know about speeding, tolls etc already - what I'm looking for is a recommended route back from Garda taking in the best passes. On the way south I intend to go via Metz, onto Stelvio, then to Garda. Its the route back I want recommendations on - too many choices......!

oh and MLCStag- I will be going late Aug into Sept - would be delighted to know your route and passes once you decide......

[Steve JP]

S

thanks for the responses guys - I know about speeding, tolls etc already - what I'm looking for is a recommended route back from Garda taking in the best passes. On the way south I intend to go via Metz, onto Stelvio, then to Garda. Its the route back I want recommendations on - too many choices......!

oh and MLCStag- I will be going late Aug into Sept - would be delighted to know your route and passes once you decide......

Your post has made me revisit my tour route which was actually the Ten Countries Run organised by Club Triumph. We approached Stelvio from St Moritz taking in the Berninapass via Bormio. You presumably will then be going south from the Stelvio to Lake Garda. We turned North instead and returned via Vipitano taking in the Jaufen pass and Timmelsjoch into Austria via Solden. Our overall journey took in a total of 21 mountain passes all of which were great through France, Switzerland, Italy and Austria. You may be able to take in the Brunig, Furka, St Gotthard, San Bernadino and Splugen passes if you approach Italy through Swizerland via Luzern. Just don't expect to do it all in one day!

Steve

[Klaus Schlueter]

As Steve mentioned on your way back from Gardasee you could go via Bozen and passing the beautiful Meranener Becken with millions of apples and grapes in Aug./Sept. to Meran, following the Passeiertal to St. Leonhard and via Timmelsjoch (2474 m) towards Austria. From there via Landeck to St. Anton and up the Arlbergpass (1793 m), the Flexenpass (1773 m)and the Hochtannbergpass (1679 m) to the Bodensee (Lake Konstanz) continuing to France or use the high speed Autobahn in Germany.
If you intend to do the trip back in just two days (think more than 1500 km)you should get up very early. And- to be honest- this paradise piece of Europe deserves a longer stay.

Hope this helps.
Klaus

[Steve JP]

As Steve mentioned on your way back from Gardasee you could go via Bozen and passing the beautiful Meranener Becken with millions of apples and grapes in Aug./Sept. to Meran, following the Passeiertal to St. Leonhard and via Timmelsjoch (2474 m) towards Austria. From there via Landeck to St. Anton and up the Arlbergpass (1793 m), the Flexenpass (1773 m)and the Hochtannbergpass (1679 m) to the Bodensee (Lake Konstanz) continuing to France or use the high speed Autobahn in Germany.
If you intend to do the trip back in just two days (think more than 1500 km)you should get up very early. And- to be honest- this paradise piece of Europe deserves a longer stay.

Hope this helps.
Klaus

The Timmelsjoch has a lovely stop at the top where Apfel Strudel can be enjoyed before commencing the descent. Personally I preferred this road to Stelvio as it was much quieter and easier to enjoy.

[MLCstag]

thanks for the responses guys - I know about speeding, tolls etc already - what I'm looking for is a recommended route back from Garda taking in the best passes. On the way south I intend to go via Metz, onto Stelvio, then to Garda. Its the route back I want recommendations on - too many choices......!

oh and MLCStag- I will be going late Aug into Sept - would be delighted to know your route and passes once you decide......

Certainly let you know when the route is finalised. Were planning it over the next couple of weeks.

Brian