Enough of a gap for radiator upgrade?

[Paul Kelley]

My current radiator is a standard Mk 2 version. The gap between fan and radiator is VERY tight - is that usual, or has something been knocked back a bit? Whilst it works fine (no overheating at all in 4,500 miles) it has some dented gills and is probably long in the tooth. I'm torn between 'if it aint broke don't fix it' and replace it before it gives trouble. And if I replace it, is it worth upgrading to a 'supergill' version? But there again I'm concerned about the tightness of fit - if an upgrade is any thicker it looks like it would catch on the fan.

As ever, the knowledge and experience of the forum would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Paul
TV8 Mk 2 in mimosa

[jleyton]

I have an upgraded rad fom Rimmers and it is incredibly tight but I'm glad I fitted it.

There is another thread running at the moment about a spigot that can be behind the VC and, if you have one of these and remove it it may help a bit. Also I enlarged the bottom fixing holes and altered the upper brackets that gave me a few more millimetres of clearance.

One very useful tip I got from the forum was to fit a sheet of corrugated cardboard to the inner face of the rad when you fit it which will help to avoid any damage.

If you do go for it, fit a new fan belt and keep an eye on it as it'll probably be impossible to change it afterwards ! Another tip, gleaned from this forum but which I haven't done, is to fit a spare belt and tape it somehow to the front cover so that, if your belt breaks, you can simply fit that spare one.

Good luck.

Cheers

Julian

[Motorsport Micky]

As Julian says, when you have the rad out fit a spare belt over the crank nose and tie wrap it in place around the timing cover with the bottom of the belt tie wrapped to the anti roll bar. If needed to replace a belt on the road it should take a couple of minutes to cut the tie wraps and wriggle it forward onto the pulley and then onto alternator or steering pump. I've had mine in place for 7 years awaiting an inevitable failure, I keep checking but no visible signs of deterioration.

Micky

[MandM]

As Julian says, when you have the rad out fit a spare belt over the crank nose and tie wrap it in place around the timing cover with the bottom of the belt tie wrapped to the anti roll bar. If needed to replace a belt on the road it should take a couple of minutes to cut the tie wraps and wriggle it forward onto the pulley and then onto alternator or steering pump. I've had mine in place for 7 years awaiting an inevitable failure, I keep checking but no visible signs of deterioration.

Micky

HI micky , like the idea, have you got a photo of how you clipped it up?

[Motorsport Micky]

HI micky , like the idea, have you got a photo of how you clipped it up?

I'll see if I can take some tomorrow.

Micky

[MandM]

Thanks

[Paul Kelley]

Many thanks Julian and Micky - really helpful feedback and tips. I've picked up on the spigot thread as mentioned, plus there's the overheating Poll running too. The standard set-up is doing well it seems!
Cheers
Paul

[Lingen]

Paul. My advice would be to leave it alone if it is doing its job. It isn't going to suddenly fail on you, and if the engine begins to get a bit hot on motorway runs etc. then that may be the time to think of a replacement. Careful testing of the various types of radiator have been done over the years, and it is clear that the most important aspect of the design is good airflow through the cores, rather than extra water capacity from extra tubes. "Supergill" and other such descriptions are trade names. Issue 368 of the magazine has photographs of the different types, and 377/8/9 demonstrate the issues in great detail. It is well worth reading these before spending your money. Some people have even found some of the new radiators available to be less effective than the old ones they have removed!
Mike.

[Stagless Steve]

Hi Paul,

The first job I did on my Stag last September was to replace the old rad with a supergill rad from Tony Hart (as recommended on Wheeler Dealers). I don't know if the old rad was the original bit I had no problems fitting the new rad apart from having to file a bit off the body work at the bottom so that both bottom locating bolts fitted through the holes. The new rad did not look any closer to the fan than the old one did. Also I placed an old towel over the fan blades in case of inadvertent touching them during fitting.
Steve

[Paul Kelley]

Thanks Mike and Steve for your views too - even if diametrically opposed! It just goes to show there is not one only 'right answer' to the old chestnut of the Stag's cooling system. There was also a test on the Channel 4 For Love of cars series by an F1 expert who proved that the standard system is designed to function perfectly effectively - if made and fitted correctly. In other words, the design is not inherently faulty.

On the Tony Hart 'supergill' front, I've just spoken to Tony as he has no rads up on his website at the moment. He is waiting for new stock (probably in January). He says that his radiator is actually slightly slimmer than the original and at £325 inc is priced pretty close to the Rimmer's versions.

Paul

[uzbek]

'Supergill' is not a specific product. I fitted an E J Ward Supergill rad. Only a bit thicker. I think Tony's is a lot fatter (and more expensive?)

I can measure the thickness of mine this weekend if you want but it was certainly only a touch wider than the damaged one that came out.

Bruce

[Paul Goldsmith]

I had my original radiator refurbished with a 4 staggered row 'fin and tube' core (57mm deep) from Serck Marston 9 years ago and it made a massive difference to my cooling and cost around £120 IIRC. The core it replaced was found to be pretty clean but was a 3 row 'packed' construction (50mm deep) and it was suggested that this possibly didn't allow enough airflow through the core. Packed construction is supposedly easier to manufacture (i.e. cheaper) and is the modern 'standard' but current cars are designed to have good airflow through the radiator.

This same core with regular flushing, 30% green antifreeze and distilled water is still going strong and cooling as well as ever. It only now needs a quick repair to a couple of pin prick holes but whilst out I will get it reviewed for a recore and have a boss added for a secondary thermostatic sensor.

The 4 row staggered 'gill and fin' core is as per OE spec pre 1976 when Triumph switched to 3 row staggered 'gill and fin' core, I don't remember the 'fins per inch' specification I chose but all my decisions were based on findings from the extensive mid-1990s Stag cooling tests by Dave Wardle.

A useful link to radiator core construction

Image of 'fin and tube' construction (my choices highlighted) ;

Fin and tube.jpg

Image of 'Packed' construction (my previous spec highlighted) ;

Packed.JPG

(it would be interesting to compare how the 'Supergill' is constructed)

[Motorsport Micky]

QUOTE=MandM;297822]HI micky , like the idea, have you got a photo of how you clipped it up?[/QUOTE]

Hi MandM,

Try these photos of the front of the engine, not very easy to get in with the bonnet on and the view of the spare suspended belt on the front of the engine can only just be seen. Basically the belt is pressed up against the lip of each cylinder head and down in the middle. Secure the belt with cable ties where it passes handy brackets (bottom of Spare fan belt positioning 004.jpgthe alternator bracket for example) or other holes you can get ties in the other side under the power steering reservoir, the belt then runs down and across and I use a tie wrap on the anti roll bar to secure it along with the carb petrol overflow pipe which comes down the front of the engine timing cover.

Spare fan belt positioning 006.jpg


Spare fan belt positioning 009.jpg

Micky

[MandM]

QUOTE=MandM;297822]HI micky , like the idea, have you got a photo of how you clipped it up?

Hi MandM,

Spare fan belt positioning 004.jpg Spare fan belt positioning 006.jpgSpare fan belt positioning 009.jpg






Micky[/QUOTE] thanks a lot micky, only just seen them ,sorry lots to read yesterday as you know, but will have a go at this when I remove the rad to fit a header tank hose tail. thanks again

[V Mad]

Other considerations when deciding on fitting a new radiator is that, apart from thickness of the fin area, there are two other points that can differ from the original rad:

1. The filler neck on the Mk2 type may be higher than original; this can prevent the fitting of an outlet connection for a header tank.
2. Original fan cowl fittings: for some unknown reason these may be missing.
3. You may later want to fit a special new connection for things such as a fan switch or header tank outlet to the left side tank; these can often be provided at little or no extra cost, and blanked off if not required at the moment.

If you think any of these may be important just ask the supplier for clarification or further details.