Electric Water Pump

[V Mad]

Go for the belt driven pump. Millions of cars were and still are built, and run fine with mechanical water pumps.

The only time there might be any benefit from running on after the engine stops is if your engine has just overheated into the red zone, by which time the damage has probably already occurred.

[GDPR]

When I bought my car I had some issues with rising temperature at speed, and bought a Davies Craig electric pump and controller as I felt the 6 vane pump may not be enough for the job and Steve hadn't designed his excellent belt pump conversion.

Turned out all I needed was a spoiler as the rad needed more air.

However, should my internal pump leak which 8 years/30k+ later it still hasn't, I will still fit the DC as a) I have already bought the stuff, including the bung from Wards, and b) there is no compelling technical reason not to. If I hadn't already got one, and as it wasnt designed and being made at that point, I may have gone for Steves mechanical setup on cost grounds if nothing else.

Nothing wrong with electric pumps, they have some advantages over the mechanical ones, and some disadvantages. Yes you can have electrical problems, but care with fitting and wiring will minimise that, the motor is brushless so no issues there and a motor life of 10000 hours+ will see me and the car off this mortal coil. John (KOY23) has been running one for donkeys years, Roger P, Jeff G down in Sussex too and no problems other than initial temp sensor position/ thermostat set up.

Mechanical pumps aren't a complete panacea and I still come across pump impellers that come adrift from the shaft, have poorly made impellers from pressed sheet that fracture and corrode so you can have a belt happily driving a pulley and you can only assume it is pumping Graham - you have as many absolutes as the next bloke with the EWP - but he can more easily check its working just by feel and if his controller goes he can hot wire the pump to get home!

Gassy stag thinks he reinvented the wheel with his, and keeps telling us, but fact remains they are both viable after market pump systems for the Stag and it's down to personal choice - no one is right or wrong and maybe it's time this one went to bed for a long sleep

[DJT]

When I bought my car I had some issues with rising temperature at speed, and bought a Davies Craig electric pump and controller as I felt the 6 vane pump may not be enough for the job and Steve hadn't designed his excellent belt pump conversion.

Turned out all I needed was a spoiler as the rad needed more air.

However, should my internal pump leak which 8 years/30k+ later it still hasn't, I will still fit the DC as a) I have already bought the stuff, including the bung from Wards, and b) there is no compelling technical reason not to. If I hadn't already got one, and as it wasnt designed and being made at that point, I may have gone for Steves mechanical setup on cost grounds if nothing else.

Nothing wrong with electric pumps, they have some advantages over the mechanical ones, and some disadvantages. Yes you can have electrical problems, but care with fitting and wiring will minimise that, the motor is brushless so no issues there and a motor life of 10000 hours+ will see me and the car off this mortal coil. John (KOY23) has been running one for donkeys years, Roger P, Jeff G down in Sussex too and no problems other than initial temp sensor position/ thermostat set up.

Mechanical pumps aren't a complete panacea and I still come across pump impellers that come adrift from the shaft, have poorly made impellers from pressed sheet that fracture and corrode so you can have a belt happily driving a pulley and you can only assume it is pumping Graham - you have as many absolutes as the next bloke with the EWP - but he can more easily check its working just by feel and if his controller goes he can hot wire the pump to get home!

Gassy stag thinks he reinvented the wheel with his, and keeps telling us, but fact remains they are both viable after market pump systems for the Stag and it's down to personal choice - no one is right or wrong and maybe it's time this one went to bed for a long sleep

A well written, considered, and balanced response. Just what we'd expect from a Moderator...

[Radenac]

A well written, considered, and balanced response. Just what we'd expect from a Moderator...

What an excellent summary from Kryten, so yes I totally agree with you Dave.

My existing water pump seems to be working fine, but I have allowed myself to be haunted by the Spectre of the Stag.

I read up all the threads and came to the conclusion that the electric pump was the one for me. I have worked on the basis that neither system will fail in my lifetime.
The Davies Craig has been going a long time without adverse comment, the Essex mechanical is tried and tested and both style of pumps are still available if needed.

The biggest deciding factor for me is that I think the electric pump will fit bottom front left of the engine. With the mechanical I will need to move the alternator + new strengthened brackets + wiring etc.

As Kryten says, it really is down to personal choice.

[Stagsongas]

At least there is a little more balance now, instead of the usual, tiresome bias toward the BDEWP.

Kryten is wrong to claim I 'think I invented it' [The EWP], that is quite a silly claim to make, and not one I've made. I've been more impartial than anyone in making sure the benefits and disadvantages of both choices are aired for people who need full information to help them make their choice. This is quite unlike Chris, who appears to be developing a very heavy bias towards the BDEWP, and that's something which makes me wonder what his real motivation is.

Even so, I'm very happy with my EEWP installation and can guaranatee it is different to any other in that also deals with the removal of the hot air that builds up under the Bonnet after the engine is stopped too, preventing heat soak.

Paul Davies is absolutely right to further consider the obvious benefits of the EEWP, a belt-driven pump cannot run after the engine has been shut down, nor can it be left inactive when the engine is started from cold, but there's more - the Electric pump's RPM can be varied between Zero and Max. , and 'pulsed' at any given RPM whatever the engine RPM are. That is not so with a BDEWP, that is stuck with the Hobson's choice of engine RPM only.

Add to that the fact that you can rid the Stag of another troublesome mechanical contraption (the Thermostat) and the choice begins to look better all the time. I'll still be fitting a BDEWP to my resto. and that intention alone puts me in the position of not only having the least demonstrated bias, but perhaps the only truly objective view when I have both types at the same time.

I've been involved in this forum for some time now, and having see it go through many bad times it is clear that the major underlying problem is always the same, a good old-fashioned power struggle between two individuals who wish to be dominant. Both of them have undoubted skills and knowledge which are invaluable to Stag owners, but it's a pity that the real value of a forum (discussion) is constantly overshadowed by the same old cause. I have taken a step back once or twice to see if things will improve but it is now abundantly clear that the matter has not been resolved, and probably won't be in the forseeable future. The logical conclusion to getting rid of all the people you think you don't like (even though you may not 'know' them at all) is that the 'Winner' will end up as the only remaining member, and then it won't be a forum at all. I've now decided that trying to steer past various agendas, vendettas and playground politics just to share and receive information about a very simple type of car is far more trouble than it's worth.

Good Luck to you all.

Steve

[V Mad]

Steve, you know my distrust with reliability of electrical installations. Secondly, I like simplicity. Thirdly I happen to think that the home grown 'daddy kit' should be supported as I have seen a lot of good feedback on it.

It's disappointing comment that you think I have some other 'motivation'.

As for domination, well I can only speak for myself; I am not interested in that. I am only interested in giving an opinion where I can contribute, based on my own knowledge and experience.

Take a breather, and have another look Steve. This forum would be a dull place without at least some controversy between those who have an informed opinion and are trying to contribute something useful or interesting.

[Mike J]

Many thanks for every ones input on this issue. I think on balance the electric one does it for me. So I might be picking a few peoples brains about hoses ..etc. if that's ok. One thing I do like about the electric set up is there seems to be plenty of choice and relatively inexpensive. so if you do have a failure getting a replacement is relatively inexpensive and flexible.

Mike

[jagorstag]

Hi Mike,

Do let us know how you get on with fitting the ewp. Sometime this year I will need to decide which way to go and reading about your experiences will be interesting.

Cheers,
Joakim

[stag8manod]

In NZ the electronic control module has been found to not be totally reliable so the smart thinking is to carry a spare one.
Cheers Ian A

[flying farmer]

In NZ the electronic control module has been found to not be totally reliable so the smart thinking is to carry a spare one.
Cheers Ian A

I have heard of this problem too in this country, never heard of a pump problem though. I have 2 pumps running through a ballast resistor on two of my cars on the basis it reduces current requirement and wear on the pump and keeps the electrical load within range of the very marginal charging system (on the TR). I also have a back up circuit supplied through a dash mounted switch to give full power if needed (only once so far on a hot and sunny Track Day at Blyton Park in the TR)

On a third car I have the full controller and pump set up. This was an ebay purchase. The fan controller doesn't work and it tends to show error lights on a fairly regular basis, in fact so regular I now ignore them as it seems to work ok, but can be annoying in the dark!

Neil

[stag8manod]

Yes Neil, The pump here is well regarded, only the controller giving trouble.
Cheers Ian A

[Seaking]

Picking holes here but what is a BDEWP (belt driven electric water pump?). Never seen one but I do have BDWP.( Belt driven water pump).fitted very pleased with it .

Cheers Glenn

[GDPR]

I think the superfluous word 'external' has been added... never seen an internal belt driven one so think it may have been acronym one - upmanship

Russ

[Seaking]

[Stagsongas]

Picking holes here but what is a BDEWP (belt driven electric water pump?). Never seen one but I do have BDWP.( Belt driven water pump).fitted very pleased with it .

Cheers Glenn

Glenn,

When I began researching an alternative to the original Water Pump, the abbreviation 'EWP' was universally used. To some, the 'E' represents 'Electric' and to others it stood for 'External'. That can be confusing. Even so, chances are the 'E' was there to make it clear that the pump was external, i.e. not an original type, so this can hardly be described as superfluous.

So, we begin with the original, accepted term EWP as the basis, but there are two distinctly different external types, one Electrically driven and the other Belt Driven.

Some reached for 'EMWP' where the 'M' is used for 'Mechanical', but an Electric pump is also a mechanical item, and if we just use EWP against that for the Electric type, some would take that to mean External, but not neccesarlly Electric. Better to make the clear distinction by reflecting how the pump is driven. E and BD covers all bases.

It's sad to see such talent being wasted on cheap point scoring, surely it would better to use it to help others solve their problems, but I don't see much of that going on this last month or so. I thought the whole point of the forum was to share information about the car. How wrong I was!

Regards

Steve