Triumph 2000 front gearbox seal and bearing

[Andrew S]

My father in addition to his Stag has a Triumph 2000 manual J type overdrive.

The front gearbox oil seal has been replaced 3 or 4 times now and has always leaked to the point it has contaminated again the clutch plate etc. A hole was drilled in the bottom of the bell housing to give the clutch a rest from fresh oil and instead dump it on his nice painted garage floor.

We are going to do the job and I discovered that he didn't replace the fron output bearing so I am suspecting that there is play and causing the seal to go.

Was looking at the parts and they are the same as the Stag, same part numbers.

So, my question is, how easy is it to replace the front bearing? What's involved? Has anyone done this job?

I always presumed the Stag or Tr6 had a beefier besting etc but I presume us just the output shaft that is bigger?

Also, he is looking at double lipped oil seals as an option, anyone tried these?

Any advice much appreciated as always.
Cheers
Andrew

[tractorjames]

I re bearinged my whole gearbox and fitted new synchro's and it wasn't too bad a job. The worst thing is not having the special tools but I managed without. I just substituted brass punches, lumps of wood and pry bars.

If I remember correctly the front bearing comes out forwards and is retained by the input housing and is prevented going backwards by a snapring that buts up against the aluminium housing. Id say in theory it will just come out forwards but in practise will requite the input/output shaft removing. As I was doing the whole box I didn't really pay much attention as to what you could and couldn't take out separately, but im sure there will be someone who knows. That said I may be a good opportunity to give the box a good check over.

As to the double lipped seal, if you can get one then It cant be a bad thing. You may be able to measure the seal and see if someone like www.bearingboys.co.uk have anything to match.

James

[Andrew S]

Thanks James. As you say, goes in from the front but its how you get it out again. I have a feeling that the shaft is lower down than the others so not accessible. The gearbox is quiet and all gear smooth, so don't really want to go too mad.

Thanks
Andrew

[tractorjames]

The input shaft is the top (highest) shaft in there, so wont require complete strip down.

Going off memory, strip down clutch release assembly, remove overdrive if fitted, remove top cover, remove rear main shaft bearing, remove main shaft complete with gears through top cover. Then knock input shaft backwards into gearbox??????

One thing, did you mask off the input shaft splines when you slid the input housing/seal over the shaft? Maybe the splines are damaging the seal as it is a rather tight fit over the splines. The input shaft will always waggle around a substantial amount as its only supported by one ball bearing and the other end relies on the flywheel spigot bearing, so if this is worn it may allow the shaft to waggle around, damaging the seal. Just a thought...

Let me see if I can find the pictures I took...

James

[tractorjames]

Cant find any good pics, but this one shows the input shaft/bearing and the output or mainshaft in the bottom corner. judging by this pucture I can't see how the job can be done without at least taking the top off as once the input shaft is removed there will be nothing holding the synchro ring in place, also there is a loose fitting needle bearing in the end of the shaft.



James

[GDPR]

You have to do a major strip - the layshaft has to come out so the lay cluster can drop into the bottom of the case to unmesh the input gears as the 4th gear engagement dogs won't allow the shaft out because they foul the laygear cluster. So top cover, overdrive and tail adaptor, plus gearbox release bearing nose, then layshaft itself have to go then the input shaft and bearing comes out through the bellhousing (tap it out carefully on the outer race using a long pin punch). The main shaft can stay in place, but be careful not to 'blow' the detents out of 3/4 synchro hub or jam the baulk rings on reassembly. If you have issues with the seal, get a speedisleeve or clean it up on a lathe (like I do) to give you a nice new running surface.

I know this because I did one on Friday... If you want me to talk you through it Andrew, give me a shout.

[Andrew S]

Thanks James and Russ

Multiple seal failures has to be result of bearing and spigot play. Need to box out but won't be until August so doing home work now in order to prepare. His clutch is snappy too, Birg and Beck but we have a Laycock to go in after we take it apart and grease the pressure plates so it won't start playing up later on when they dry out.

Thanks again
Andrew

[susiedeer]

You have to do a major strip - the layshaft has to come out so the lay cluster can drop into the bottom of the case to unmesh the input gears as the 4th gear engagement dogs won't allow the shaft out because they foul the laygear cluster. So top cover, overdrive and tail adaptor, plus gearbox release bearing nose, then layshaft itself have to go then the input shaft and bearing comes out through the bellhousing (tap it out carefully on the outer race using a long pin punch). The main shaft can stay in place, but be careful not to 'blow' the detents out of 3/4 synchro hub or jam the baulk rings on reassembly. If you have issues with the seal, get a speedisleeve or clean it up on a lathe (like I do) to give you a nice new running surface.

I know this because I did one on Friday... If you want me to talk you through it Andrew, give me a shout.

Spot on Russ, only some tips to add (from my rebuild):
1. Taken from the Practical Classics Stag book, they used a hot air gun to warm the bell housing area around the bearing, it then expands the bearing hole, and after doing all the stuff that Russ mentioned with the lay shaft, it just slides out.
2. Watch out for alignment of the oil thrower between the bearing and gear, it needs to be central but tries to get trapped as the bearing is pressed onto the shaft.
3. I used some wicking Loctite (290) to the casing/bearing outer to ensure the bearing stays put (mine had some marks from previous use suggesting it had been spinning in the bell housing.
4. When fitting the oil seal I used some brass shim rolled around the splines to protect the seal over the splines.
Cheers
Andy

[Andrew S]

Thanks Andy

Just found out that its an A type overdrive, does that make things a bit more complicated?

Cheers
Andrew

[GDPR]

Ummmmm yes.... refitting the overdrive is much more of a handful, and when stripping the overdrive is removed from the adaptor, then the adaptor from the gearbox - the overdrive in an ideal world needs a dummy mainshaft to align the plates or it won't go back on, however it can be done without, but with careful tweaking in the bowels of the overdrive with a long screwdriver. You also have to refit the 8 overdrive springs with the unit balanced on the mainshaft.

The J type can be simply removed as an assembly with the adaptor with no disturbance to the overdrive other than alignment of the oil pump drive ring

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to bring it down and I'll do it for you - it was an A type I did on friday so it's painfully fresh in the mind - I've also got a suitable puller to remove the input shaft bearing from the shaft without buggering anything

[Andrew S]

Thanks Russ PM sent

[new to this]

You have to do a major strip - the layshaft has to come out so the lay cluster can drop into the bottom of the case to unmesh the input gears as the 4th gear engagement dogs won't allow the shaft out because they foul the laygear cluster. So top cover, overdrive and tail adaptor, plus gearbox release bearing nose, then layshaft itself have to go then the input shaft and bearing comes out through the bellhousing (tap it out carefully on the outer race using a long pin punch). The main shaft can stay in place, but be careful not to 'blow' the detents out of 3/4 synchro hub or jam the baulk rings on reassembly. If you have issues with the seal, get a speedisleeve or clean it up on a lathe (like I do) to give you a nice new running surface.

I know this because I did one on Friday... If you want me to talk you through it Andrew, give me a shout.

Russ

was interesting watching you work on the gearbox,i wouldn't have a clue

dave

[GDPR]

They're the easy ones Dave - you should see me do a Honda 3 shaft auto or an AP auto... blow your mind

[susiedeer]

Ummmmm yes.... refitting the overdrive is much more of a handful, and when stripping the overdrive is removed from the adaptor, then the adaptor from the gearbox - the overdrive in an ideal world needs a dummy mainshaft to align the plates or it won't go back on, however it can be done without, but with careful tweaking in the bowels of the overdrive with a long screwdriver. You also have to refit the 8 overdrive springs with the unit balanced on the mainshaft.

The J type can be simply removed as an assembly with the adaptor with no disturbance to the overdrive other than alignment of the oil pump drive ring

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to bring it down and I'll do it for you - it was an A type I did on friday so it's painfully fresh in the mind - I've also got a suitable puller to remove the input shaft bearing from the shaft without buggering anything

No knowledge of A type as mine was the much easier J type, Russ knows way more about gearbox rebuilds than me and he provided me the answer for my clutch release as well (in another thread); use the Paddocks upgraded kit, it works beautifully, so thanks Russ.
Cheers
Andy

[Andrew S]

I received the double lip seal for Dad's car today and was expecting to see 2 seal lips like a Gilette razor but instead I see this. Is this correct or have I been sent a single lipped version.

I just need to know I suppose what the definition of a double lipped one looks like

2015-07-24 18.28.55.jpg 2015-07-24 18.30.30.jpg

Cheers
Andrew