Electric windows don't work - window breaker keeps tripping

[marshman]

10 a

Ok thanks.

[Pete]

I'm sorry Pete but that is bad advice to give on an open forum. It is quite likely that someone would adopt what you say and possibly burn out their motor, wiring or car, based on the assumption that the circuit breaker is working or indeed present. The circuit breaker is a thermal device and is very crude, and will trip at different time delays. I have no idea how long mine takes to trip and I'm not prepared to abuse my motor to find out. Nor do I short out the sockets in my house to test the circuit protection

Do do what you like to your own car but please don't suggest that's how it should be done.

I am not suggesting that at all and I'm sure most people will have that mechanical sympathy that you described (but suggested only a minoirty would have). Most sensible people will release the switch when the window has closed, but that thermal device is there,I reckon, for two reasons:-

1. To safe-guard for any any faults that could arise.
2 To give some margin of error for when peope do not release the switch at the exact moment that the window closes.

I'm not advising anyone in the way people should or should not use the window switch.

[Pete]

Actually - I will go one step further. When I was ionvestigating my electric windows, I was astonished that they were not protected by a dedicated fuse. The thermal cut-out is a very serious design flaw.

[new to this]

Actually - I will go one step further. When I was ionvestigating my electric windows, I was astonished that they were not protected by a dedicated fuse. The thermal cut-out is a very serious design flaw.

Pete

why ? its acting as a fuse

dave

[LAMBRETTLAD]

10 a

Same here

[V Mad]

If anyone is worried that a single thermal cutout might fail to break the circuit they could fit an extra one in series. Very unlikely that two would fail s/c at the same time.

[Pete]

Dave - I can understand what you are saying but a fuse blows when the circuit overloads, the circuit breaker just cools down and resets therefore allowing the current back into a potentially faulty circuit. I think Graham and Alex have the right approach.

[DJT]

Actually - I will go one step further. When I was ionvestigating my electric windows, I was astonished that they were not protected by a dedicated fuse. The thermal cut-out is a very serious design flaw.

Flash news! Stags and Triumph saloons have been catching fire at an alarming rate for the past 40 years due to serious design flaw in the electric window system........

[marshman]

Flash news! Stags and Triumph saloons have been catching fire at an alarming rate for the past 40 years due to serious design flaw in the electric window system........

Thanks for the info Dave, I wasn't aware of that On a more serious note My Standard 8 and Standard Vanguard had virtually no fuses. The Standard 8 had 1, yes just one, fuse and that was inline for the interior light and as I recall the Vanguard had two, one for the Horns and the other was for the overdrive.

Personally I think fuses are overrated!!!

Having said that there is an argument in favour of a fuse for the window motors. Most other electrical loads in the car are designed for continuous operation where as the window motors are obviously not. Any fault with the switches where for example the contacts break and the switch does not remove the power will result in a potentially serious situation should the cut out fail. This is not generally true of most other electrical items in a car. So Pete does have a point about relying on a 40 year old bi-mettallic strip. How many people have given up on their original flasher unit because it no longer works as it should?

Roger

[Pete]

Flash news! Stags and Triumph saloons have been catching fire at an alarming rate for the past 40 years due to serious design flaw in the electric window system........

Nice one

The Stag was designed in an era where that wouldn't have been thought a problem. So the ignition control relay is protected by a 35 amp fuse. Happy with that? That could cause a smoking mess behind your dashboard.

[DJT]

Nice one

The Stag was designed in an era where that wouldn't have been thought a problem. So the ignition control relay is protected by a 35 amp fuse. Happy with that? That could cause a smoking mess behind your dashboard.

Yes. It's been OK so far for the past 42 years, and my previous Stag is still around at 44 years young.

[KOY 23]

Nice one

The Stag was designed in an era where that wouldn't have been thought a problem. So the ignition control relay is protected by a 35 amp fuse. Happy with that? That could cause a smoking mess behind your dashboard.

Pete.
I've heard a few people say the Stag overheated but never heard they had a reputation for electrical fires. In fact they were very well fused compared with other cars of the era.

Don't forget that Lucas fuses of that era were marked with their blow rating, not continuous current rating which is half the blow rating. Modern fuses are rated at continuous current rating. 17.5amp fuse doesn't now sound a problem does it?

The risks increase when an originally rated fuse is replaced by a modern rated fuse, now your 35 amp fuse will blow at 70amp, that could be a problem for the wiring in an overload situation, but not for a true short circuit.

Yes, I'm happy, thank you.

[V Mad]

Adding a fuse (in series) is not a bad idea, as it gives extra protection against a short should the breaker fail to break. But a fuse alone cannot protect against a motor stalling and overheating without also being a nuisance. For example, if you fit a fuse equal to the stall current or below it will keep blowing every time you get your timing wrong. If you fit a fuse just above the stall value, it will not blow if the switch gets stuck, or someone heavy handed uses it. In that case a lot of heat is generated and could lead to motor burn out or worse - that's why the breaker is really useful as it can break at a much lower value than a fuse without you having to keep replacing a fuse. It's one of the thing Triumph engineers did get right (IMHO).

[Staggard]

As anyone worked out how long yo have to hold down/up the window switch before the car self ignites. I personally have never been a mumbo jumbo theory person. I only go from practical experience ( you know tried and tested ) not what I think might happen. So I have a Hawk alarm fitted with a window closing facility. I also have a 10 amp blade fuse in place of the circuit breaker. My drivers side window takes 3 seconds to close and the passenger window takes 4 seconds to close the alarm when set sends out a negative pulse for 30 seconds which leaves the window motors receiving a live 26 seconds after the windows have closed. So me saying that holding the switch down was a recipe for disaster was a load of b*****ks for which I apologise.