Back End loose in the Wet - is this Normal?

[StagJonno]

Just wanting to tap into the collective wisdom and experience.

Tonight when out on a club drive in the rain, I twice experienced the back end move, once when going round a corner and once coming out of a roundabout. Both times, speed was slow with fairly low, smooth acceleration. I've only had my Stag for a year - the only other time I've had it out in the wet was on holiday, with a passenger and a bootful of luggage and didn't have any twitching.

In the dry, it corners like it's on rails and is a delight to throw it through corners - no sign of what I understand as the "Triumph Twitch".

Its only done 34k miles tyres and there doesn't seem to be any slack on the halfshaft splines. I have some concern on the tyres - these are Goodrich with ~6mm tread all round, but I'm advised by the local Kwik Fit that they're probably ~30 years old. They appear in good nick with no signs of cracking.

Questions:
1 - Is this handling normal?
2 - Are tyres of this age likely to have lost "stickiness" in the wet, whilst fine in the dry (or has tyre technology moved on more than I appreciate?
3 - If it's the age of the tyres, what replacements are recommended? I'm a great fan of Continental and they do seem to have a suitable tyre, but I believe the Michelin XAS is now re-available (and recommended by Longstone)

All help & comments welcome.

Thanks

Jonno

[flying farmer]

It is definitely the age of the tyres, the rubber goes hard with age.

Change them before you end up in an accident.

It is probably nearly 20 years ago now, but I had a set of economy brand tyres fitted to my TR. Within 18 months the car was undriveable in the wet even though the tyres were ok when new.

The final straw was when I was going around a roundabout in a 4 wheel drift at 20 mph, and a Nissan Micra flew round the inside of me doing about 40 mph!

Neil

[mole42]

Tyres are absolutely the culprit - 30 year old tyres are at least 20 years past their use by date. No way would I drive enthusiastically on 30 year old tyres.

I use Avon ZV5 - predictable, superb handling (wet or dry) and cheap enough (about £250 a set).

[GDPR]

The final straw was when I was going around a roundabout in a 4 wheel drift at 20 mph, and a Nissan Micra flew round the inside of me doing about 40 mph!

Neil

But who looked more stylish?

[wilf]

Tyres that old are just plain dangerous. They simply harden and have no grip and are also possible blowouts. Tread depth isn't the real indicator on low mileage cars. Age certainly is, and although no doubt many will argue differing figures, my rule of thumb is 5 years max.

At least it was a simple answer Jonno!

[Stagsongas]

New tyres has to be a wise move and is never money wasted.

Might be worth checking the rear driveshaft joints are sliding too.

Good Luck

Steve

[malc4d]

Is there any backup info on that statement about 5 years ?
When I bought tyres 'all those' years ago, nobody ever said " Oi mate, drive like a idiot and use them there tyres up quick. We're Gonna ream ya for a new set in 5 years.."

[Stagsongas]

Malc,

No-one does that with Rubber Seals either.

[StagJonno]

Thanks Guys,

You've confirmed my suspicions so I'll get onto this smartly.

Richard, what rims have you got - looked for the Avon ZX5 but they're not available for 14" rims. Think I'll go for the Conti EcoContact 5 - seems to have the best overall wet grip and fuel economy and only ~£270 with a prepaid online order. I looked further into the Longstone original Mich XAS, but extremely pricey.

Jonno

PS - Not really being secretive - can't seem to find how to get photo to show in my signature. Any clues or do I need to speak to the Administrator?

[mole42]

I have standard steel 14" wheels. It seems that Avon have stopped doing the ZV5 in 14" size :-(

There is a Bridgestone R630 in 185/14" and a Dunlop but the Continental is only 175/14.

YMMV

[Neil W]

PS - Not really being secretive - can't seem to find how to get photo to show in my signature. Any clues or do I need to speak to the Administrator?

Try going into the top right of web page - Settings - Left hand side now - My Settlings - Edit Signature / Edit Avatar ( wee photo under your sign in name )

Neil

[wilf]

Is there any backup info on that statement about 5 years ?
When I bought tyres 'all those' years ago, nobody ever said " Oi mate, drive like a idiot and use them there tyres up quick. We're Gonna ream ya for a new set in 5 years.."

I can't point to anything in writing, but two people "who should know", both friends, have confirmed to me that tyre performance degrades considerably as a result of oxidation and UV degradation around the 5 year mark, and less if they are in direct sunlight (like trailers that stand outside all the time). These friends: one works for Michelin, the other runs his own tyre fitting business. In fact, they said that three years would be their personal limit for tyres fitted to anything vaguely "high performance".

[StagJonno]

Try going into the top right of web page - Settings - Left hand side now - My Settlings - Edit Signature / Edit Avatar ( wee photo under your sign in name )

Neil

Thanks Neil,

Thought the "Avatar" was an additional feature to "Picture". Now they are one!

jonno

[pagan]

If your even ridden a motorcycle for any length of time you'd realize that tires have a lifespan for their compound stability.
The grip of a tire is mostly it's compound not it's tread depth.
The compound will work best at a certain temperature, over that, slips under that, doesn't work as well.
There is also a lifespan and distance (wear rate) too.

A tire that lasts a long distance, won't give the best grip. and visa-versa.

A tire that has lasted over 30,000 miles and still has tread on it, wasn't meant for best grip.
Add to that, that the tire is over 30 years old, I think the compound has gone harder.

Allan

[richard1705]

does anyone know about rear tie bars for better handling do they work also were are they available
richard