DTI on Stag alloys

[Andrew S]

Has anyone found run out on standard Stag alloys and if so was this tested inside the rim? Also, any variances between standard and repro alloys?

Cheers
Andrew

[flying farmer]

Never used a gauge to measure the run out of the standard alloys, the up and down movement of the rim as it rotates can be measured using a pointer such as a nail resting on a block of wood.
I have never noticed any significant side to side wobble on any Stag alloys.

Don't assume the hubs are perfect. I have had front hubs with significant run out due to bearing failure leaving the outer race loose in the hub. It can be held in place with bearing adhesive, but don't assume that it will be in the correct place. This leads to brake disc run out which is a more significant problem than wheel wobble.

Rear hubs can also be wrong from the factory. My PI saloon had a stud circle that gave a roughly 1mm up and down movement on both rear hubs. By carefully selecting my Stag alloys I found a pair that also had a 1mm up and down movement, put on the right way round the two would cancel each other out. Put them on the wrong way around and the vibration could be felt due to the movement up and down being doubled to 2 mm.

What may be significant is the tyres. When I first got my PI (25 years ago now), it had 4 different makes of tyres all just legal, and no vibration.

After fitting a new set of tyres the car was bouncing up and down like a clowns car, particularly at about 50mph. Rebalancing didn't help, so that was when I started checking the rims. It must have something to do with the tyre construction.

Neil

[Andrew S]

Thanks Neil that interesting.
This is the reason why I am asking. Last weekend I met up with Mike (mike@thenook) who very kindly let me try his minlites on the back of my Stag and my problem went away. I started off jacking up the rear end of the stag and put axle stands under the trailing arms. I put this in a post a while back but as I went through the gears, I could feel the car wanting to pick up a rhythm or feel like it was bouncing at the back. Mike clearly could see that the tyre or wheel had run out not only up and down but sideways. I have always ignored the sideways movement as someone on here said that that would normally be compensated by tyre balancing. Anyway, we set up a DTI on the side of the alloy and there was run out but minimal. Being that his wheel nuts are tapered, we fitted those to my alloys to ensure that the wheel was located accurately to the studs and it made no difference. This morning I have contacted Mytyres to see what they say about going back to their fitter or me going elsewhere for an opinion. When trying Mike's wheels, the car was smooth through all speeds and although I did not take the car out for a road test, this must be the transmission resonance or run out that I have been trying to resolve. It was the same on my old tyres but nowhere near as bad and they were worn. It would be so easy to just buy some 15inch minilites and new tyres and be done with it but I would really like to know the cause first

http://youtu.be/VnHddZ4bd3U

Fingers crossed but I feel I am now very close to peace of mind and empty wallet
Cheers
Andrew

[Lingen]

Andrew. Your video clip shows that there is something wrong with that tyre rather than the wheel. Have you tried fitting the wheel (and tyre) to the front of the car? If the bouncing action moves with it on the road, that would confirm that it is the culprit. All the evidence needed for a replacement I suggest.
Mike.

[Andrew S]

Thanks Mike
Both rears are like that and suspect the front are too. I will do as you suggest and see what happens
Cheers
Andrew

[Lingen]

Andrew. All of them!! It sounds as though you ought to get the whole lot replaced F.O.C. There must be a manufacturing fault surely.
Mike.

[Andrew S]

I agree Mike and have contacted the supplier and although its past teh 30 day warranty and would mention the consumer act not fit for rule

[flying farmer]

I have had big problems in the past with tyres on my Toledo developing flat spots when stood for any amount of time. The size used is 195/50 x 15 currently using Yokohamas, which are not too bad. The previous tyres the name of which currently escapes me but were fitted as OEM to my fathers Mazda, were appallingly bad when stood for a couple of weeks. It was actually the tread rather than the carcase that flattened, and the distortion could easily be seen. After being driven for about 40 miles they would be round again but it was not a lot of use if the car stood for a couple of weeks and was then used for a 20 mile round trip.

In the end I binned them less than half worn as it was shaking the car to pieces.
I have never had the same problem on 60 or 65 profile tyres, but I suspect the softer compound of a more performance related tyre might be more prone to giving problems.

It might be worth marking the contact point of tyres with the ground if parked for a while, then checking if the distortion coincides with this. If it does then the problem should move to a different part of the tyre next time it is parked up.
If this is the case then the only solution is either to bin the tyres or use the car daily!
Neil

[mike@thenook]

I think this may be an indicator of you get what you pay for - my Michelins (expensive) don't seem to suffer at all when left to rest for two or three weeks but I don't like them as a tyre as much as the (cheap) Corsa's I had before; the rain grooving on the Michelins takes up too much of the tyre tread which is ok if I were use it a lot in the rain but I don't. They also seem quite hard compared to the Corsa's which I''ve heard of Michelins before but they have a very long life in terms of wear.

Interestingly my 03 Freelander still has the original spare Michelin mounted on the back door and there is not one shred of breakdown yet of the carcass - comparatively my Daughters 09 Yaris which has a Japanese OEM fitted tyre still on the back is showing delamination between the tread blocks.

Trouble is as we all know, getting decent 14" tyres is now not easy - there's loads of cheap stuff out there but not necessarily of good quality and Andrew I think we agreed you just may unwittingly be suffering the results - I know we couldn't check the manufacture date either at the time, another bearing on the matter maybe. If there isn't one on the side wall they could be quite old stock that mytyres are off-loading....

Sure hope you get it sorted soon!

[Andrew S]

Cheers Mike. I haven't heard back from Mytyres yet about my problem but in the meantime I took the near side rear we looked at down to kwikfit bad they were very helpful and out it on their wheel balancer without the cover on top and you could see even spinning them by hand they were moving up and down and he said alloy seemed fine.

Not sure where I stand now with the tyres as he commented it's not the fitting but could be the way they have been stored from new.

[mike@thenook]

Hmm,

I have heard that some of these cheap on line tyre places do off-load some of the shall we say "seconds" which is why they tend to be cheaper..bad storage may be why they are cheaper..

Very poor indeed.

That 'shower' I never got my tyres from (Tyre leader) have some horrendous comments - I never even got my tyres or my money back so I would only now only go to a dealer where I can see what I buy before I pay for them.

[marshman]

I think this may be an indicator of you get what you pay for - my Michelins (expensive) don't seem to suffer at all when left to rest for two or three weeks but I don't like them as a tyre as much as the (cheap) Corsa's I had before; the rain grooving on the Michelins takes up too much of the tyre tread which is ok if I were use it a lot in the rain but I don't. They also seem quite hard compared to the Corsa's which I''ve heard of Michelins before but they have a very long life in terms of wear.

Interestingly my 03 Freelander still has the original spare Michelin mounted on the back door and there is not one shred of breakdown yet of the carcass - comparatively my Daughters 09 Yaris which has a Japanese OEM fitted tyre still on the back is showing delamination between the tread blocks.

Trouble is as we all know, getting decent 14" tyres is now not easy - there's loads of cheap stuff out there but not necessarily of good quality and Andrew I think we agreed you just may unwittingly be suffering the results - I know we couldn't check the manufacture date either at the time, another bearing on the matter maybe. If there isn't one on the side wall they could be quite old stock that mytyres are off-loading....

Sure hope you get it sorted soon!

As far as I know it is a legal requirement for the date (month/year) to be marked on the tyre. It is however usually only on one siddwall so not necessarily visible on outside. If there really is no date then they could be rejected for that, but Iwould be very surprised if there isn't.

I buy lots, well over 50 in the last 6 years or so, nearly all from camskill who usually have the best prices on supply only. They have all been dated less than a year old and have all been undistorted, I fit and balance all my own tyres. Yes some do "move" more than others but none have ever caused a problem on the road. The last tyre I bought last month was from Tyreleader. No comlaints, arrived in 2 days from Germany!

I tend to steer away from certain cheaper makes based on past experience. Those are event, runway, sava and tudor. They either wear very quickly or the carcass starts to become dustorted after about 12000 miles or 18 months, this happend twice with different batches of the same make. Price and name however is no guarantee of quality or longevity. I have had Pireli tyres that have cracked and gone really hard with no grip after less than 3 years, and saw the same on a michelin energy tyre that was less than 2 years old. Yet the "cheap" marshall tyres onmy landy are now around 12 years old with no sign of decay and still have masses of tread - its not a fast vehicle mord of a tractor so I am not so concerned about the age of these tyres, I wouldn't run a normal car on tyres that old.

Hope you get to the bottom of the problem Andy

Roger

[Andrew S]

Thanks Roger
Quick update and credit to MyTyres wh9o emailed same day Friday but I have only just found their email in my 'junk mail' box. This is what they have said and I have already gone back to them. Looks so far that they are offering good customer service and I await their reply to see what's next.

We regret that you are not satisfied with the quality of the goods delivered. We can offer to have the goods assessed directly by the manufacturer. You will receive a separate e-mail with the necessary claim form. Please complete this and return it. The reclaimed goods will be uplifted from you and forwarded to the manufacturer for assessment.
We will also arrange replacement goods or reimbursement for the reclaimed goods as desired by you. You will not be charged for the replacement / reimbursement. This rule not valid in the case of a rejection of your claim by the manufacturer. In this case, we will invoice you separately for the replacement goods.
Please inform us immediately if you accept our claim terms, how many items you wish to reclaim and for what reason(s) you wish to claim, so that we can begin processing your claim as soon as possible and can arrange uplift of the reclaimed goods.

[Johnh]

Hi Andrew,

I have just read through your thread and an interesting one it is, thanks to all for the experiences.

I have bought 3 times from Mytyres and so far had no problems but I am not sure about the response to your problems, you will be left with a tyreless car while the tests are carried out or you could end up with buying 8 tyres. I would have thought that an initial visit/sight of the tyres on the car to establish an initial evaluation would be reasonable or possibly sending 1 tyre back for testing with the rest and spare on the car which would at least keep it mobile. As all 4 were bought at the same time it is reasonable to assume that they would all suffer the same problem.

Good Luck, John H

[Andrew S]

Cheers, yes, that's my plan, just one tyre. I have sent them the video clip that I posted here so there can see it. My plan is to ask them if their fitter can verify the problem so I am not left without a car
Also, if they refund me, I will pay the extra and get a set of Uniroyal Rain Expert 3's in 195x70x14
We'll see