Aluminium Cylinder Head Corrosion - 1974

[TR5convalescent]

This is not an empirical response. I used Evans in my car with a reconditioned and higher capacity radiator and electric fan only. I never knew a worry free drive with the gauge always reading above half way and, in traffic or stationary, creeping up very quickly to frightening levels. Nothing I did to the thermostat on the fan switch made any difference - once the temperature had increased to the point where the fan was triggered it would ratchet higher and higher and the only way to break that cycle was to stop for half an hour. Such was my paranoia that I had the car tested for HGF twice in just over 2 years - both tests negative for HGF. This culminated in HGF about 2 years ago when I was stuck in a traffic jam at night and unable to switch off, just as I was about to order a fan the size of the ones used in cooling towers at power stations!

Enginuity did the HGF repair and checked the fan and electrics confirming there was more than enough airflow to do the job. They suggested going back to OE antifreeze mix with distilled water and I have had no problems since despite sitting in stationary traffic in July in Greenwich for four hours with the ambient temperature at 34 Celsius.

There might be other reasons for the HGF before the switch back to Bluecol but I will not be going back to Evans unless something changes. Don’t misunderstand me, I would say to each his own, but looking back, I feel I should never have consented to the coolant switch when the radiator was replaced. Before the old radiator failed, the car had not had problems according to the PO. I feel I made the classic error of changing several things at once, thus becoming unable to decide which change actually worked.

[Robin Searle]

All that I was trying to do was to show the results that were discovered on three different Stag engines,one of which was my own and how all three were fixed. I was not trying to do a 'sell job' for Evans Waterless but in my case it was the solution that was chosen. I do not dispute that there are other antifreeze products out there that may work, but until you remove the heads you may not discover that there is indeed a problem.in the first place.Stag forums in the US,Australia and yours in the UK have all reported a head corrosion problem as I have checked them all.
I also based my decision on the way the aluminum thermostat housing had corroded around the edges as did the water pump housing, once I saw that it was then that I decided to get away from antifreeze altogether, just take a look at the photos that I added to my post a week or so ago,if it was not an antifreeze/aluminum combination then pray tell me what was the cause?..

[DJT]

Robin,
To understand the corrosion issues with the TV8 you have to look back at the history of the Stag. It is well documented that the factory left casting sand in the blocks which led to overheating, which continues today in some engines. It is also well known that the Triumph accountants insisted on a cheaper option for the head gaskets rather than the ones the engineers wanted to fit. The engine itself was unusual at the time in that it had alloy heads fitted to an iron block, which generates electrolytic corrosion. The Stag was often sold as a ‘second car’ for Summer use only, as such they often, and in many examples still do, spent several months locked away in Winter. Quality anti-corrosive coolant was/is essential but it’s importance was often underestimated and overlooked. This was especially true during the years that the Stag was unloved and reached ‘banger status’.
I have been lucky in that both the Stags I’ve owned seemed to have had cooling systems that had been maintained properly, as the heads on both had very little corrosion, other than where they were stuck on the studs and proved difficult to remove. None required welding, just a light skim and back in use. The importance of quality anti-corrosion coolant is much better understood these days, and any Stag being looked after properly will survive indefinitely, and not overheat, using the correct concentration of ethylene glycol antifreeze.

There are papers published online which refute Evans’ claims regarding use in ‘classic’ engines. I’m not qualified to determine who is correct, but I’m yet to be convinced either way.

[Robin Searle]

Thanks but as yet nobody has addressed the issue of why the pitting around the edges of the ALUMINUM thermostat and water pump housings where the coolant pipes carrying antifreeze and water attach to, unless it was the mice in the barns when the Stags were put into forced storage! .many for a number of years, mine included.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=t7PykrgzWPQ
Take another look at the Jay Leno video as for those that are not living in NA Jay Leno probably has the largest collection of vintage/antique cars in the world. He buys up cars including the Merlin engined [as in the Spitfire fighter aircraft] Rolls that was constructed in the UK, he talks of corrosion that he has come across in some of his cars and the causes.

[Motorsport Micky]

Thanks but as yet nobody has addressed the issue of why the pitting around the edges of the ALUMINUM thermostat and water pump housings where the coolant pipes carrying antifreeze and water attach to, unless it was the mice in the barns when the Stags were put into forced storage! .many for a number of years, mine included.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=t7PykrgzWPQ
Take another look at the Jay Leno video as for those that are not living in NA Jay Leno probably has the largest collection of vintage/antique cars in the world. He buys up cars including the Merlin engined [as in the Spitfire fighter aircraft] Rolls that was constructed in the UK, he talks of corrosion that he has come across in some of his cars and the causes.

Jay Leno...Jay Leno ? that would be the Neanderthal that blew all the water out of his freshly restored SP250 (Daimler Dart) on it's first run up into the mountains around Los Angeles, (his expensive mechanics had fitted a radiator cap with too short a neck to seal the rad) and he elected to drive the still simmering engine BACK into town without stopping for a water top up of the rad...that Jay Leno. I don't think I would either accept or trust any advice on mechanical matters from the likes of him, and no he wouldn't be allowed to drive one of my cars.
Sorry Robin, I take your recommendations at face value and thank you for raising them but you back a wrong horse when you quote Jay Leno as being anything but a knuckle dragger without an ounce of mechanical sympathy.

Micky

[DJT]

Thanks but as yet nobody has addressed the issue of why the pitting around the edges of the ALUMINUM thermostat and water pump housings where the coolant pipes carrying antifreeze and water attach to, unless it was the mice in the barns when the Stags were put into forced storage! .many for a number of years, mine included.

Exactly the same reasons as the corrosion of the heads, as per post #18.

[TR5convalescent]

Going back to the 1970s, amongst the young lads driving then, I recall that it was common practice to substitute plain H2O for bluecol in summer every year because the superior heat transfer properties were known. Not a problem in soft water areas but I am sure I read somewhere that many Stags in period in the Home Counties (where the water is simply diluted calcium carbonate) were subjected to this mistreatment with the consequences we all know about.

A now long deceased motor engineer warned me in about 1978 never to put anything other than distilled water in any car with any aluminium waterways or thermostat or water pump housings at all. Other than the Stag none of my cars has ever popped a head gasket since then.

[Robin Searle]

I clearly stated that yes there are perhaps other products out there that work better than does antifreeze with aluminum and 'distilled water' is one of them. Here in NA temperatures do go down in the winter to MINUS 40C, so distilled water route is not an option.Note that here again in NA all tractor trailers run with on a Evans type product as it never has to be changed and it can handle temperatures from MINUS 40C up to 200C.
I and many other Stag owners here in NA are more than happy with using Evans in all types of temperatures and unlike antifreeze when cars are put to bed late in the fall there is no corrosive fluid eating away at the aluminum

As regards to Jay Leno it is so obvious that in Sutton in Ashfield UK, Jay Leno's Garage is not on their top 10 list, whereas here in NA he is respected for his extensive knowledge and for the rescue of so many vehicles that would have been scraped otherwise.

[Robin Searle]

I sat down with Peter DeHaan the mechanic who rebuilt all three Stag engines and I showed him some of the responses that were posted in response to my original post and he shook his head and commented that obviously they have not removed many heads.and checked them out.
He explained that in two of the engines the corrosion was so bad that all of the edges surrounding the inlet coolant passageways had to be ground out and then MIG welded as you may see from my additional photos, which clearly shows where the MIG welding was performed.

It is obvious that some do not believe me, which is not a problem as far as I am concerned, but all I wished to do was to point out what I and others have discovered, to try and perhaps educate those that have a more inquiring mind.and are eager to know of others Stag discoveries.

Some three years ago I wrote an article on the very poor plastic zipper on Stag soft tops. used by an old company still in business, and that I had found many others in Australia,Canada,Us and yes in the UK experiencing the same issue, with many installers here in NA refusing to install them on customers car for that reason. I did not mention the company name but it was obvious as to who it was and for that reason Carl would not publish it in the SOC magazine.It was published over here In STAG News and received many positive replies and thanks for my cure or fix.
So let me end by saying I will still pass on any Stag findings that I might have, and just ignore those doubting Thomas's that I eluded to before.

Robin

[mole42]

Aluminium castings associated with British car marques have oft been referred to as "Aero Bars" - an English chocolate confectionary noted for the inclusion of many air bubbles.

[jakesmig]

........................................

Robin

Are those photographs before or after repair?

Agree with rubbish zips on hoods. Mine kept on separating so I ended up sewing the screen into the hood, saved a whole lot of grief.

John.

[Robin Searle]

Yes all of the photos are after it had been MIG welded and the heads resurfaced. I wish that I had photos of what the heads looked like before they were sent to the machine shop and necessitated the MIG welding. I have posted the two photos that I took of my water pump inlet tubes and the corrosion that I found when I removed the hoses and the reason why I got interested in this subject in the first place and led me, and now others here in Canada, to switch our coolant over to Evans.