HOW to remove the Starter motor top bolt

[Ian928]

Yesterday I tried to remove the starter motor by using the instruction created by Flying Farmer in the Technical section. The first thing I noticed, and what could be included in the instruction is that on Federal cars the AC bracket is blocking access for sliding the 3/8" extensions between the manifold and the starter.

My AC is not working anyway, so I continued to remove the compressor and bracket, it is VERY large and heavy so good riddens to it... But, I can still not get to the darned bolt. I am using a 15mm pipe instead of 9/16, could it be that the 15mm is just to big to fit? I will look to see if I can find a 9/16 in 3/8" size. I see from the instruction that Flying Farmer managed to snap a picture of the bolt, however I am not able to get the view he has. My car is LHD, maybe that is making matters worse? I fiddled around a bit and got the pipe on to what I believed had to be the starter bolt, but extracted a nut that is probably from the clutch housing?

To make matters even worse, I am not sure if I am able to drop the starter down without removing the exhaust , my car has a dual 2" system custom made in California and I am afraid that this is blocking access

I am dropping the starter to change solenoid, maybe I am better off to just change the solenoid in situ? I have searched but are still unsure how doable this is?

[jbuckl]

If your car is auto, check the ignition switch & inhibitor switch first.

Starter will come out past standard exhausts.
Do use a 9/16 / 3/8 drive socket. Dont use a pipe.

Solenoid is best done off the car.

[Paul Roberts]

It can be an absolute pig of a job, Ian.

It's also obvious that your car is "different" to mine with LH drive, modified manifolds, etc.

I know of no foolproof easy method so what follows is based purely on personal experience and improvisation;

If your top bolt is a bolt and nut (as opposed to a blind bolt into the bell housing - auto/manual gearbox?) you can, just, get a spanner on the head facing the bulkhead. I stuck a welding rod to the nut (hidden under the manifold), that I could just get to, to stop it from turning and turned the bolt head one flat at a time.

It was an absolute b+stard to do.

[Stagless Steve]

I did this job last year on my RHD Stag with standard exhaust and manifolds. I found that I could remove the solenoid without having to remove the starter motor but just could not get the plunger of the new solenoid located back onto the actuating arm inside the starter motor with it in situ. In retrospect maybe I should have left the old plunger in place and just fitted the new solenoid barrel to it. Anyway, to remove the motor itself I found that a 1/2 inch socket extension was too big and although it fitted between the manifold and the cylinder head it would not locate onto the head of the top bolt. Instead I tried a 1/4 extension set, which I managed to locate onto the bolt but it then bent because the bolt was too tight! In the end I was able to get a flat ring spanner in there and loosen the top bolt a fraction. I then used the 1/4 extension set-up to remove the bolt, which in my case screwed into the bell housing I think, i.e. no nut on the other end.

I ended up removing the exhaust pipe because it just made things so much easier.

I hope that helps.

Steve

[Ian928]

If your car is auto, check the ignition switch & inhibitor switch first.

Starter will come out past standard exhausts.
Do use a 9/16 / 3/8 drive socket. Dont use a pipe.

Solenoid is best done off the car.

Aha! Socket is called pipe in Norwegian!

I have located a 9/16" / 3/8" socket in my town, hopefully I can get it and finish removing the starter today. I can drop the exhaust but it is a lot of work, apparently it was welded on the car and I need to remove everything on both sides back to the middle silencers in one piece.

My car is a Manual by the way, I guess that means the starter is atteched with a bolt threaded into the bell housing? But how about the nut that I accidentally removed, should there be a nut above the bolt for the starter? I am thinking maybe somthing is bodged and that the nut is in fact for the starter. I tried to wiggle the starter and it would not move though.

Another thing: When I removed the AC compressor it left a gaping hole in the engine bay. Have anyone put a turbo in that location ? The LH exhaust exits in that location, and I guess it is possible to reroute the RH ehaust to go in front of the engine also and then merge into a turbo.

[malc4d]

When I did mine (LHD) I used 2 extension bars. 1 was a "wobbly" one so l had a bit of play to get to the bolt. Pig off a job the first time..

[jbuckl]

Should be be two long through bolts iirc.
Auto may be different to manual.
Seem to recall the upper nut being on the gearbox side.

oh they are different:-

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID005312

Aha! Socket is called pipe in Norwegian!

I have located a 9/16" / 3/8" socket in my town, hopefully I can get it and finish removing the starter today. I can drop the exhaust but it is a lot of work, apparently it was welded on the car and I need to remove everything on both sides back to the middle silencers in one piece.

My car is a Manual by the way, I guess that means the starter is atteched with a bolt threaded into the bell housing? But how about the nut that I accidentally removed, should there be a nut above the bolt for the starter? I am thinking maybe somthing is bodged and that the nut is in fact for the starter. I tried to wiggle the starter and it would not move though.

Another thing: When I removed the AC compressor it left a gaping hole in the engine bay. Have anyone put a turbo in that location ? The LH exhaust exits in that location, and I guess it is possible to reroute the RH ehaust to go in front of the engine also and then merge into a turbo.

[Stagless Steve]

I then used the 1/4 extension set-up to remove the bolt, which in my case screwed into the bell housing I think, i.e. no nut on the other end.

My apologies Ian, I have just checked and the top bolt does have a nut on the other side of the bell housing.

Steve

[mole42]

So, all in all, it's easier to change the starter by first removing the engine?

[Ian928]

Today I had time to work on the Stag again, and althoug it is impossibel to see the bolt, I located the threded part coming through the bellhousing so i Could see where it should be. I then got my newle acquired socket onto what had to be the bolt head, but the rachet just spun... It turns out someone indeed have put a stud bolt in there, so when I managed to remove the nut in the first Place the starter was just stuck With friction. A Heavy hammer dislodged it!

I should now be happily putting the starter back With my New solenoid, but when I tested the starter in my vice, I think something is still wrong! Here are the symptoms:

1. When I use a spanner to jump positive current to the solenoid the starter slams the gear forward and the starter spins up. The gear then slips back maybe 5mm and the starter stops spinning. When I remove the spanner the gear retracts all the way.
2. I moved the gear manually With the solenoid dismantled and there was no binding
3. I have tested this With my booster starter and jumper cables from the car and the starter behaves in the same way

I Guess the 5mm that the gear retracts is because the solenoid is not able to keep the switch closed? I have not tried putting back the old solenoid, but I suspect the same thing will happen.

I Guess the most reasonable thing to do would be to buy a New starter. I do not want to do this again in a couple of months... The starter on the car is marked With 73 and have done 100K miles so are probably past its best before date.

[Stagsongas]

Today I had time to work on the Stag again, and althoug it is impossibel to see the bolt, I located the threded part coming through the bellhousing so i Could see where it should be. I then got my newle acquired socket onto what had to be the bolt head, but the rachet just spun... It turns out someone indeed have put a stud bolt in there, so when I managed to remove the nut in the first Place the starter was just stuck With friction. A Heavy hammer dislodged it!

I should now be happily putting the starter back With my New solenoid, but when I tested the starter in my vice, I think something is still wrong! Here are the symptoms:

1. When I use a spanner to jump positive current to the solenoid the starter slams the gear forward and the starter spins up. The gear then slips back maybe 5mm and the starter stops spinning. When I remove the spanner the gear retracts all the way.
2. I moved the gear manually With the solenoid dismantled and there was no binding
3. I have tested this With my booster starter and jumper cables from the car and the starter behaves in the same way

I Guess the 5mm that the gear retracts is because the solenoid is not able to keep the switch closed? I have not tried putting back the old solenoid, but I suspect the same thing will happen.

I Guess the most reasonable thing to do would be to buy a New starter. I do not want to do this again in a couple of months... The starter on the car is marked With 73 and have done 100K miles so are probably past its best before date.

Ian,

I can't tell if your statrer is working properly as I'm unsure about how you have the jump lead connected for testing. Are you running a supply to the large top solenoid connection, and then linking that to the smaller solenoid energising post, or are you only powering up the smaller solenoid post? Either way the gear will push out and spin up, if only a little in the latter case.

Another thing I have found in the past is a starter that appeared to function just fine, but the clutch inside the gear assembly was damaged so the motor could not rotate the flywheel if the clutch 'missed'.

As for removal, it's not easy on any model variant, but it might help if you refit the bottom bolt. It's often tempting to take the bottom bolt out first, but when the weight of the starter is hanging on the top bolt only, it can make it much harder to undo and remove. I always try to stop myself going for the easy one first!

Good Luck

Steve

[Omen]

Sounds typical Stag job. A five minute job, is only possible after 30-40mins of stripping things out to gain access !!
Guess Richard is right, just pull the engine first . . . !!!

[Stagsongas]

Sounds typical Stag job. A five minute job, is only possible after 30-40mins of stripping things out to gain access !!

I hope you already have an oil pressure gauge. On an Auto that can take overtime!

[Ian928]

Ian,

I can't tell if your statrer is working properly as I'm unsure about how you have the jump lead connected for testing. Are you running a supply to the large top solenoid connection, and then linking that to the smaller solenoid energising post, or are you only powering up the smaller solenoid post? Either way the gear will push out and spin up, if only a little in the latter case.

Another thing I have found in the past is a starter that appeared to function just fine, but the clutch inside the gear assembly was damaged so the motor could not rotate the flywheel if the clutch 'missed'.

As for removal, it's not easy on any model variant, but it might help if you refit the bottom bolt. It's often tempting to take the bottom bolt out first, but when the weight of the starter is hanging on the top bolt only, it can make it much harder to undo and remove. I always try to stop myself going for the easy one first!

Good Luck

Steve

I tested with supply to the large connection and jumped that to the smaller post.

I think I have to try with the old solenoid to make sure if the new solenoid is working as it should.

One thing I need to make sure about, is how the solenoid is attached to the lever for the starter gear. I pushed back the spring and the small plate on the arm on the plunger arm so I could slide the lever into the slot on the arm. Can anybody confirm that this is correct?

[StagJonno]

The starter solenoid has 2 x windings - 1 to pull-in, the other to hold-in. There could be a problem in the hold-in winding, or additional unintended resistance in this circuit. I can't see the detail of the transition from one to the other in the Haynes manual, but if you're not feeding the solenoid in the correct manner, this just might give the symptoms you're getting on testing.

Jonno