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    Header tank issue

    Hello chaps. I have an aluminium expansion tank supplied by LD Parts, which is plumbed in on the NS front wing, it then has an overflow to the OE bottle. The VC fan died shortly after I bought the car in JUne 14 and this was dumped as was the Kenlowe fan and replaced by a BMW Blower fan on the front of the rad (the theory was that this would give better ram airflow through the rad). The Kenlowe controller and thermostat were kept and the new fan wired into them. There is no manual override.

    My problem is that on Tuesday, I spent a total of about 3 hours in heavy London traffic in ambient temperatures of between 27 and 34c. The Fan was running pretty well continuously and the gauge was between 3/5ths and 4/5ths up. The car coped and there were no overheating symptoms such misfires or stalling in fact no problems at all apart from the radiated heat from the engine bay.

    On Wednesday morning I fired her up with no problem and the header tank low level warning buzzer wouldn't shut up. On investigation the OE overflow bottle was nearly full. Restoring the entire contents of this to the header tank stopped the buzzer and I used the car all day yesterday without incident. This morning there's about 35mm depth in the previously emptied overflow. Obviously this does not siphon back to the header like it was supposed to on the TRs (but rarely did!).

    Do I need to consider reducing the cut in temperature of the Kenlowe stat or alternatively to put in a higher pressure cap? The existing cap is 20psi, which I would have thought was enough. Presumably, increasing the system pressure will also increase the boiling point eventually leading to warped heads, while capping off the overflow bottle would simply lead to coolant loss as once pressure goes beyond the cap limit the coolant will simply force its way past the spring seal and all over the engine bay. The Kenlowe is currently set halfway between N and H (N being half way between C and H).

    On the advice of a previous garage, I am running Evans Cool 180. While the car has not overheated since (which it did on its inaugural journey home from the PO) I am wondering if I need to reduce coolant temperature, perhaps using the Kenlowe controller, or maybe fitting a cooler cylinder head thermostat? (Or both?)

    As always, suggestions, barracking and Mickey takes all gratefully received.

    #2
    I do not believe a modern Header Tank and cap is set up to siphon back trough the overflow hose? I am not aware how the LD tank is set up, but my "modern cars" does not have a seal between the cap and the overflow catch, and can not produce vacuum too siphon water up.
    Kirsti & Ian in Norway
    1973 Stag Mk2 (ex-USA), Mallard Blue, TV8 engine, Manual O/D

    Comment


      #3
      Does the header tank from LD parts have its own pressure cap, or does it use the one on the bottle? If the latter, then it may be that the bottle cap isn't sealing properly, or even that the metal top to the bottle isn't fully sealed to the plastic bottle. Having a pressure cap on the tank is the better arrangement as gravity will then keep the system full.
      As for the hot running, I know another Stag owner whose car had always run at a steady correct temperature, till he tried using 100% "Coolant" rather than his usual water/antifreeze mix. This caused the engine to run a good deal hotter, and worryingly so in hot weather. Reverting to the antifreeze mix immediately cured the problem. Water is a very efficient heat carrier, more so that these "Coolants", so with a car like the Stag, which seems to need every bit of help it can get, it may not be suitable.
      Mike.

      Comment


        #4
        TR5,
        The coolant itself isn't the issue it's more likely a small air leak in the cap or near the system high point, that's the sure way to stop a siphon.
        No need to put a high pressure cap on, I ran Evans for a year with a 0psi cap in my Stag without issue and the syphon worked perfectly. I removed the spring and seal from a standard cap, the coolant flowed into the bottle as it heated and was sucked back on cooling. My car is a Mk1 with an unpressurised overflow bottle and I fitted a Stagweber header tank.
        I took the Evans out when the N/S rear inlet manifold gasket failed, I'll leak test with water/ antifreeze and once happy put the Evans back in. It's back in it's containers in the garage.
        LD334, Royal Blue, TV8, BW35.
        When all else fails, read the instructions.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Lingen View Post
          Does the header tank from LD parts have its own pressure cap, or does it use the one on the bottle? If the latter, then it may be that the bottle cap isn't sealing properly, or even that the metal top to the bottle isn't fully sealed to the plastic bottle. Having a pressure cap on the tank is the better arrangement as gravity will then keep the system full.
          As for the hot running, I know another Stag owner whose car had always run at a steady correct temperature, till he tried using 100% "Coolant" rather than his usual water/antifreeze mix. This caused the engine to run a good deal hotter, and worryingly so in hot weather. Reverting to the antifreeze mix immediately cured the problem. Water is a very efficient heat carrier, more so that these "Coolants", so with a car like the Stag, which seems to need every bit of help it can get, it may not be suitable.
          Mike.
          Mike, thanks for your reply. The pressure cap is on the header tank. There isn't another on the rad. Your point about coolant is sort of where I was going, but I thought that if I reduced the fan staring temperature that might keep things a little cooler . The OE overflow has no pressure cap and I am pretty certain the cap threads don't seal it and nor does the hole through which the hose is pushed.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by LD334 View Post
            TR5,
            The coolant itself isn't the issue it's more likely a small air leak in the cap or near the system high point, that's the sure way to stop a siphon.
            No need to put a high pressure cap on, I ran Evans for a year with a 0psi cap in my Stag without issue and the syphon worked perfectly. I removed the spring and seal from a standard cap, the coolant flowed into the bottle as it heated and was sucked back on cooling. My car is a Mk1 with an unpressurised overflow bottle and I fitted a Stagweber header tank.
            I took the Evans out when the N/S rear inlet manifold gasket failed, I'll leak test with water/ antifreeze and once happy put the Evans back in. It's back in it's containers in the garage.
            Thanks for the reply. If I removed the pressure cap from the header tank, I would have a completely unpressurised system. Is that what you have done? Is there no a danger of the overflow bottle being overwhelmed as the system is then open to atmosphere with a consequent loss of coolant? Indeed isn't this what used to happen with the OE setup?

            Or is the lack of pressure what keeps the temperature of your coolant within manageable limits? Regarding the leak possibility, I'd expect to see coolant in the oil drip tray under the car and I have to say that this is the first Triumoh I have had which does not leak at all (touch wood) since I junked the BW35.

            Comment


              #7
              Didn't know LD sold header tanks

              Comment


                #8
                I wasn't aware LDParts have ever sold header tanks - I have checked on their website and although a few parts are sold to fit your own, no tank listed.

                Are you sure about the provenance of this fitment?

                Furthermore I wouldn't have that waterless coolant anywhere near my cars - it is in my opinion an overpriced gimmick and 30% antifreeze/70 water is far more efficient - and a tiny fraction of the cost

                This review of waterless coolants says it all for me - http://www.oilem.com/potential-issue...gine-coolants/
                Last edited by GDPR; 25 August 2016, 17:37.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Interesting reading, more aftermarket snake oil. http://www.norosion.com/evanstest.htm

                  Many good reasons for not letting it near a Stag engine, especially extra strain put on water pump and jackshaft.
                  Last edited by KOY 23; 25 August 2016, 17:40.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Been on here before. http://socforum.com/forum/showthread...ant#post279921


                    I remember at a ND they had stand and were filling someones car with it because it was running hot. I wonder if it was ever fixed properly rather than masking the problem.

                    Maybe shove some of this in as well to complete the job http://www.nosmokeoil.com/

                    Ian.
                    Last edited by milothedog; 25 August 2016, 18:02.
                    Wise men ignore the advice of fools, but fools ignore the advice of wise men sigpic

                    Comment


                      #11
                      TR5
                      I assume your header tank is above your overflow bottle? The coolant in the T2000 is sucked back into the rad from this bottle during cool down and maintains a full rad rather than having air in the top of the rad as was common in this era. To achieve this, a proper T2000 cap has a second seal in the lid that seals against the upper neck of the filler, most caps don't have this.
                      If it was my car, i'd find an OEM VC and re-fit the original fan.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I've never seen any expansion or header tank for sale at LD Parts, and I've been a regular customer since he started trading. Peter is a devotee of 'keep it original wherever possible'.

                        The only aftermarket Stag header tanks I am aware of have been sold by EJ Ward and Stagweber
                        Last edited by DJT; 25 August 2016, 19:29.
                        Dave
                        1974 Mk2, ZF Auto, 3.45 Diff, Datsun Driveshafts. Stag owner/maintainer since 1989.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi
                          I second above. I once tried just having an electric fan and found that it was always on in slow moving town traffic or on hot days in traffic, also the fan I have has an annoying roar when on. Worse was watching the temp gauge moving from either side of the middle of the gauge all the time. Went back to original set up in quick time, now Temp gauge stays in the middle with very little movement and no roaring fan. Left electric fan on but raised the setting much higher, never comes on.

                          Tim

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks for the feedback. I respect the views of others but feel that reverting to the old VC fan is a retrograde step and would be very expensive. I also feel that some of the concerns expressed about the waterless coolant might be overly cautious as the links seem to refer mainly to catastrophes occurring under race conditions. I'd suggest that crawling from Waterloo Bridge, via Parilament Square and sitting stationary for an hour in ambient temperatures of 30c is a pretty good test especially after a day spent alternatively thrashing up and the A41 and crawling round the M25 at sub 30 mph for a couple of hours at 33c.

                            However, I do accept the points made about a much higher operating temperature so I am minded to revert to Bluecol.or similar. As the water in Bucks is so hard that Jesus would have excited no comment at all by walking on it, I assume that I will need distilled water, but what mix would you recommend? And for that matter which blue antifreeze?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Mine worked well in temps up to 42 deg c on the last trip with 50/50 Bluecol no coolant loss 6000 klms used pretty much every day .

                              Comment

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