iron filings in wire wheel

[SaskStag]

Hi all,
Having some problems with my car's original wire wheels with replacement SS spokes. In 2015, after a 2000 mile drive the right front wheel tried to part company with the car. Luckily we were pulling up to a petrol pump at the time we heard a grinding sound. This was the result:

IMG_2522lowres.jpg

Changed to spare wheel and luckily had a spare adapter hub and we were on our way again. Had the internal hub splines deepened on the wheel at the local wheel refurbishers and carried on.

On a recent trip we noticed steering wheel wobble at about 60 mph and again at 70 mph. Clunking during braking. Took the same wheel off and noticed same thing was happening:

IMG_3164lowres.jpg

Adapter hub not bent out of shape this time, but I replaced front wheel with right rear and put the spare wheel on the rear. No clunking underneath and more stable at speed. But I have an ominous feeling I heard same clunk as I put the car away after the run.

The bad wheel is now in the boot. But I'm not sure whether it's the wheel or the spinner coming undone (yes, it's the correct side). Could it be something more worrying such as the whole set up on that right front? Everything else seems to work fine, brakes etc.

At the moment I'm sorely tempted to just put Minilites on the car for safety......

Thanks in advance for any thoughts
Tanya

[Paul Roberts]

Tanya,

There is, absolutely, no visible sign (on your photo of the hub adaptor) that the wheel hub is mating with the face/shoulder of the adaptor. Is it possible that the adaptor nuts or studs are, in some way, preventing the wheel from fully engaging with/on the shoulder of the adaptor?

If this were the case, the wheel would only be held stable by the spinner locating on the outer end of the splined boss.

This would result in the severe problem you describe.

[Staggard]

You will hate me for this but I'm not a lover of spokes on a Stag, but it looks like with the trouble you have had there is some kind of a mismatch there somewhere . As an option to minilites the ones I have put on my car came from the states ( its ok if you don't like them) they are not expensive especially if you buy them direct. Just a thought.

[Paul Roberts]

Second thought;

Is the spinner bottoming out on the adaptor thread before it has clamped the wheel against the adaptor shoulder? In other words; is the length of the adaptor boss just fractionally too long for the wheel hub?

[SaskStag]

Hi Paul,
There is a band of wear on the shoulder of this new adapter hub, looks like a rusty mark. Sorry no pics. There is a bright shiny band on the same place on the normal rear wheel adapter. Hard to say if the spinner bottoming out, but that's where the filings seem to accumulate. I did notice that there is not the same length of stud protruding from the 4 nuts and wondered about this being correct. Torque is correct, no more room to tighten the nuts with less stud protruding. Hope this makes sense.

Graham,
I do like those wheels. I thought it would be a bit cheeky to copy.....

Before I opt for other wheels, it would be nice to know what is the problem is

Cheers

[Paul Roberts]

Difficult to tell, Tanya, but I'm convinced it's not, for whatever reason, locating on the shoulder correctly.

The studs could be protruding too far (too long).

Smear a very thin film of grease/oil on the inside locating face of the wheel hub (the shiney face in your photo); press the wheel onto the hub by hand (don't rock it too enthusiastically) and check that it feels solid.

Remove it and see if there is a trace film of grease on the mating face of the adaptor.

I'll bet you a beer that there isn't.... .

I have recently fitted wireys on mine; had to saw the studs off flush with the nuts to clear the (different to yours) wheel hub.

[SaskStag]

Thanks Paul, I will try this.

I found a picture of the old hub (2015 trip) with more shoulder in view:

IMG_2521lowres.jpg

[Staggard]

Ok so is there an witness marks as to where the metal has come from, From your last picture it looks that the wheel hub is sitting on the hub bevel as to the lack of rust ( the splines should be greased with graphite grease) so I would guess that if the wheel hub was sitting on the studs the hub bevel would be rusty. when you tighten the spinner/central hub nut can you then pull/push the wheel in and out.

[Staggard]

If when you tighten up the spinner/wheel nut it bottoms out on the thread before it clamps the wheel tight against the hub bevel it will allow the wheel to chatter on the splines resulting in failure. But I guess I'm not telling you something that you don't know already

[SaskStag]

TBH, it all tightens up as it should spinner seems to sit the same as other wheels. I did my homework using red wheel bearing grease as Paul suggested and to me, it seems ok. I use copper anti-seize as recommended by wheel guy here. I think that it what the band is stained with? This is new adapter hub that replaced previous ones in picture

IMG_3169low rs.jpg

There is very very slight rocking on the hub itself with bothers me.

[elvimto]

Tanya,
I got a 1971 with wire wheels all original I decided to change to alloy because on of the two of wire wheels had bent spokes and the tires were old. I did find that the wheel studs are a different length as are the lug nuts that hold the adapter on. I would have to dig them out of my stash pile to get the measurement. The studs for the alloys are longer.

Stuart

[Marco Polo]

You will hate me for this but I'm not a lover of spokes on a Stag, but it looks like with the trouble you have had there is some kind of a mismatch there somewhere . As an option to minilites the ones I have put on my car came from the states ( its ok if you don't like them) they are not expensive especially if you buy them direct. Just a thought.

Why did you try to pinch mine then ??����

[dasadrew]

Those wheel nuts look rather like the ones used on standard pressed metal wheels, in which case the bevel used to go towards the car to centre the wheel when tightening. It looks like the bevel is facing away from the wheel hub. Does the wire wheel adapter hole have a chamfer into which that bevel should go?

Drew

[Staggard]

Why did you try to pinch mine then ??����

That was Sonia she said humour the old fella or he wont invite us to any more BBQ's

[mole42]

Wheelnuts look okay to me, they are supposed to be bevelled on the outside to clear the flange of the roadwheel.
There looks to be some contact between the wheel and the hub on the inner bevel but I am suspicious of the amount of dirt on there. I have no experience of Triumph wire wheels, but the ones on my Alvis have a shiny bevel where the wheel made firm contact with the hub adapter. The splines don't do much to locate the wheel, they just transmit braking forces (on the front wheels). There is an inner recess in the spinner which locates the outer flange of the wheel hub to give a positive location. I wonder if the wheel spinner has been loosening off in use. How often do you check the spinners for tightness?

I certainly would not use the car until this is sorted out.

Richard