Engine earth, where?

[lotstag]

I'm suffering the dreaded Stag click for the first time in almost 12 years of ownership, didn't even know it existed until searching the forum. I've now read up on the forum the many similar threads and have been trying to eliminate possible causes one by one. Early on in the piece of trying to troubleshoot the problem, I found the battery earth strap was fastened down at the inner wing, but the other end (not the battery end) is floating in fresh air. I haven't undone it and no one else would have done in my ownership, so it's either not critical and was running like that the last time the car was on the road, or it may have worked loose, which is unlikely as it hasn't been running for a while. I'm assuming this is the engine earth, but I can't see where it is supposed to connect to. It would just about reach the engine mounting block bolt on the engine side, which is tight up and not easy to reattach to now. Can anyone please enlighten me as to where it is meant to be connected and if it's not the engine earth, where is the engine earth?

To complete the story, I'm confident it isn't the battery, nor the starter solenoid, I've benchtested the starter and replaced the relay fitted by the PO on the ignition feed. I have today cleaned the block connectors at the auto gearbox, yet to do the one under the steering column. I'm sort of thinking it's the earth, particularly as I did manage to get it to crank earlier when I attached a separate earth, albeit not convincingly, turned very slow, and won't now repeat successfully. Will appreciate any help. Thanks.
Leigh

[mjheathcote]

I've had problems throughout my 30 years of ownership.
Some years not a problem, some years real bad, like this year, 100 clunks before starting is too many!

The earth on mine goes from the battery to the inner wing, then from the same stud on the inner wing to a bolt holding on the PAS pump.
Never had a problem with the enthusiasm of the starter, once engaged, so I don't think bad earths have been a problem.
I have added an additional earth strap from the engine to the body, to be sure.
Battery top notch Bosch S5.
I've fitted relay bypass so to eliminate any voltage drop from the ignition switch, no change.
My starter has been 'reconditioned' in the past, still no change.
My last solution, so as to eliminate any old components, is to fit a high torque starter motor which I bought a few weeks ago, that is 100% new and has not been 'reconditioned'.
We shall see....

[mole42]

The correct earth strap goes from a bolt on the timing chain cover above the alternator, to the body earth on the front wheelarch then to the battery. If all three connections are sound, tight bolts, no corrosion and tight crimps to the braided strap,you can eliminate earth problems in that department.

[lotstag]

Thanks for replies, I'll get the earth connected correctly and see how I go.

[mallardstag]

Without the engine earth strap the starter current will take the easiest path it can find to earth which is usually the choke and/or throttle cables and these can become hot and damaged internally as a result. If either feels 'sticky' it will have to be replaced.

[Andrew S]

To save time, keep a jump lead handy and when it starts doing it, just clamp it on the battery negative and then to a good earth on the engine and you will know instantly that its the earth. Might save you a lot of messing around and getting those hands unnecessarily dirty

[wilf]

Whatever else you do, reconnect that earth strap anyway.

Starter motor current finding it's way to earth via any other route is not a good idea.

[Hughesy]

Leigh, I had the same problem several years ago. It turned out to be the positive lead. I have a Mk1 and from the battery the positive lead goes to a terminal on the firewall near the steering column. This terminal takes the power into the cabin but there is also a lead going across the back of the engine and onto the starter motor. The firewall terminal had corrosion which once cleaned solved my problem. As part of my fault finding process I fitted a relay into the starter switch circuit to take the current load off the ignition switch which could also be the source of your problem. Craig

[mallardstag]

Whatever else you do, reconnect that earth strap anyway.

Starter motor current finding it's way to earth via any other route is not a good idea.

+1

[Carboy0]

I too am chasing the Stag 'clunk'. The PO had Wards fit a reconditioned starter earlier this year and I have fitted the starter solonoid relay.. - it still 'clunks'.

Thanks for advice on the earth and positive straps, I will work the them.

[Carboy0]

The earth lead is fine, however the positive lead has a taped joint in it about six inches from the terminal. The reason for this is that the battery has been fitted back to front with the terminals buried at the back of the battery recess, close to the back of the front panel, so someone has extended them.

I tried a battery jump lead direct from the battery positive terminal to the starter positive terminal and the car started first time.

Does anyone know where I can get a positive battery cable lead for a Mk2? I believe that the part number is 521112.

All the usual suspects show as out of stock. Although some are listing the two part Mk1 unit.

Thanks in advance.

[LAMBRETTLAD]

A Good Auto electrician / shop should be able to make you one

[Staggard]

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/section.php/48/1/cables

[lotstag]

I managed to get the Stag started today, but can categorically say I have absolutely no idea what the problem was. It may have been a combination of factors. I remade the engine earth, made good a few dodgy connectors onto the relay fitted by PO, cleaned a few others and still no start. At this point I was getting the machine gun effect of the starter pinion bouncing in and out of mesh with the ring gear. Then I tried to use a better jumper cable onto the temporary Range Rover battery I'm using, since the battery fitted on the Stag is dead. I got nothing at all then, the ignition lights came on and immediately went off, so I started to suspect the after-market immobiliser. After separating a few wires on the immobiliser, hey presto it started and has restarted a few times since. I'm now thinking I'll rip out the immobiliser and make the wiring back to original.

Thanks for all the good advise. Now I have to tackle the seized back brakes (at least, I hope that's all it is, it's making a strange grinding noise when reversing up the driveway.

[davidf]

it's making a strange grinding noise when reversing up the driveway

One thing to take care of - if you have manual/overdrive, and some problem with the switching, you can have the overdrive trying to engage in reverse, and that is serious bad news. I have seen cars with a faulty inhibitor switch on the gearbox which a PO has bypassed, so it is possible to switch it in in any gear.