Learning to weld

[Jeff]

Just played snooker with a Scottish Fireman this morning who retires next April and can't wait to move out to Tenerife permanently as he already owns an Apartment on our complex. He is quite good at snooker, but then Firemen imbetween calls have plenty of time on their hands, and he plays Pool a lot in the Fire Station recreation room.

Not all of us were good at snooker Terry, I was good at table tennis and some were good at darts but lots were very, very good at cards oh and volleyball.

[scotty57]

I bought a Clarke 135TE Turbo MIG Welder back in 2009 when I was restoring my MGB. I had an auto dim helmet which was brilliant as it leaves both hands free. I practised a lot on scrap metal playing around with the settings and you soon get the hang of it. An experienced welder told me to you are aiming for the sound of bacon sizzling when welding. The biggest test is not getting splatter round the weld but that is down to getting the settings right. I did body bodywork and chassis with the kit and whilst it is not classed as a professional set up it did the job for me. It is very useful to have lots of clamps, self tapping screws, quality metal cutting shears, joggler (for body panels), weld thru primer and patience. I really enjoyed it and now volunteer for any welding my mates want doing.


I taught myself to lead load but that is a different story.......

[Tdm]

Not all of us were good at snooker Terry, I was good at table tennis and some were good at darts but lots were very, very good at cards oh and volleyball.

I was good at Table Tennis as I used to play every lunchtime when I worked in a Bank in Bolton in the 60's, and I wasn't bad at Darts either as I used to play with my wife's Father who was a "Champ of Champs" on the Club circuit in the Chorley area.

Not so good at cards though (couldn't stop myself smiling when I had a good hand at Poker), and have never played volleyball.

Nowadays it's just snooker every Wednesday and Saturday, and something that is quite popular over here that I have never played is "Paddle Tennis". We also have 2 Petanque players on our complex who represent England in International matches and are very good as we have 2 Petanque pitches on site and have played against them.

[richardthestag]

I have been welding the bottom 8 inchs of a Range Rover over the last 4 months.

GAS and Wirefeed have been my biggest issues

Wirefeed was down to a crap budget mechanism on my old sip migmate

As was the cheap and nasty earth clamp

It was replaced by this

https://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/Mig-Welder-BlueMig-150T.html

the unit takes BIG 5kg rolls of wire and has a quality wirefeed and a Type 15 torch. That sorted problem #1

Next gas, Don't consider gasless MIG, Nowt wrong with CO2 but Argon/CO2 mix gives a better weld at a very slight cost (unless you know a fireman ;-). Disposable bottles last minutes and it can get pretty expensive. I went for Hobbyweld 5Mix original bottle http://www.hobbyweld.co.uk/products/, supplier was able to supply me with a £20ish regulator. Initial outlay was £100ish but refils are nearer £30. Way more economical. Incidentally I run the gas at between 7 and 10cpfm depending on conditions. In the Garage I fiddle around at 6-7cfpm. Outside it will be nearer 10.

Next steel - most steel on the car will be 16 or 18 gauge - just over 1mm thick. on my welder their are 4 power settings, I spend most of my time on power setting #2 and adjust the wire feed to suit If I start to blow through then I go down to Setting #1 but thus far have not needed 3 or 4. This is a 30-150amp welder so I am using about half its potential. The Duty cyle on settings 1 and 2 are a lot longer than say at 4 which I might need for the heavy duty steel on the chassis

Safety
Get an auto dimming helmet, you will need two hands to weld. I found this good value and effective, especially with gauntlets and apron

https://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/Speedshield-V-Automatic-Welding-Helmet.html

Dont mess about with safety, large blobs of weld dropping into your crutch is not ammusing, nor is arc eye

Lastly tip dip - worth its weight in gold. keeps the tip and shroud clag free and improves the welding tons.

Start with clean steel off cuts, just because the steel looks clean doesnt mean that it doesnt have a coating Use a wire brush, or scotch clean pad to remove thye residue. Earth the steel and have a play, torch should be at 45degrees so you can see the wire arcing, the tip should be 5-10mm from the piece you are welding, experiment.

try dropping spots of weld that look like spot welds. You need to see a head circle right about the weld and also on the other side of the panel you have penetration! next cut some holes in a second piece of steel and clamp it tight against the first then "plug" the holes with weld. to low power or too slow wirespeed means that it will not weld through both and secure them. Not enough Gas means that there is loads of splatter

Bit of an art that I am still mastering

edited to add;

Hold the trigger on the torch with one hand sopport the end on the torch near the shroud with the other. I tend to lean my left hand on the workpiece and support the tip using my first finger - obviously wearing gloves

When welding spots give the welder a good 5-10 second blast. If the hole is big then use a circular motion moving from the centre to the outside of the hole. If the weld blows through the power is too high or the torch is running too long

There are loads of tip and tricks on line about how to tell when the weld is good or not. smooth sizzling bacon is what you are aiming for sound wise. smooth weld that stands slightly proud of the piece and has heat haze around it on both sides of the workpiece are good. Dont get excited and think you can seam weld from the start. test your weld to destruction, you shouldnt be able to break it

I tend to lay down a short tag maybe 1cm and then leave a 10-20cm gap and do another. while the first cools and then tag in between etc

Flappy discs are easier than grinding discs on thin steel

position a bright work light shining on the workpiece makes life a lot easier when welding

When working on the car I clean back the steel being welded and then use a Zinc weld through Primer (halfords etc supply) the welded finish is falppy wheeled back before more zinc paint and a quality seam sealer prevents any moisture ingress.

Lastly turn off the regulator feed at the bottle when you finish welding, vent the excess gas from the regulator and torch by pulling the trigger with power on, this prevents any pressure stress damaging your kit. On disposable bottles set the regulator fully open and adjust it back if too much gas is spoiling your weld, remove it when not in use as the regulator can/will leak

A good set of g clamps, welding clamps, butt clamps (snigger) and furniture clamps help hold things in place. alternatively drill and pop rivet but the two pieces being welded must be tight together and free from residue, paint or rust

edited again to add

welding mild steel is easier than stainless, aluminium, birmabrit etc

When welding anything galvanised grind off the galv first unless you like throwing up a lot.

If you wear glasses make sure you wear then inside the welding helmet, sounds funny but I didnt and couldnt work out why it was so difficult lol

[MandM]

I have been welding the bottom 8 inchs of a Range Rover over the last 4 months.

GAS and Wirefeed have been my biggest issues

Wirefeed was down to a crap budget mechanism on my old sip migmate

As was the cheap and nasty earth clamp

It was replaced by this

https://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/Mig-Welder-BlueMig-150T.html

the unit takes BIG 5kg rolls of wire and has a quality wirefeed and a Type 15 torch. That sorted problem #1

Next gas, Don't consider gasless MIG, Nowt wrong with CO2 but Argon/CO2 mix gives a better weld at a very slight cost (unless you know a fireman ;-). Disposable bottles last minutes and it can get pretty expensive. I went for Hobbyweld 5Mix original bottle http://www.hobbyweld.co.uk/products/, supplier was able to supply me with a £20ish regulator. Initial outlay was £100ish but refils are nearer £30. Way more economical. Incidentally I run the gas at between 7 and 10cpfm depending on conditions. In the Garage I fiddle around at 6-7cfpm. Outside it will be nearer 10.

Next steel - most steel on the car will be 16 or 18 gauge - just over 1mm thick. on my welder their are 4 power settings, I spend most of my time on power setting #2 and adjust the wire feed to suit If I start to blow through then I go down to Setting #1 but thus far have not needed 3 or 4. This is a 30-150amp welder so I am using about half its potential. The Duty cyle on settings 1 and 2 are a lot longer than say at 4 which I might need for the heavy duty steel on the chassis

Safety
Get an auto dimming helmet, you will need two hands to weld. I found this good value and effective, especially with gauntlets and apron

https://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/Speedshield-V-Automatic-Welding-Helmet.html

Dont mess about with safety, large blobs of weld dropping into your crutch is not ammusing, nor is arc eye

Lastly tip dip - worth its weight in gold. keeps the tip and shroud clag free and improves the welding tons.

Start with clean steel off cuts, just because the steel looks clean doesnt mean that it doesnt have a coating Use a wire brush, or scotch clean pad to remove thye residue. Earth the steel and have a play, torch should be at 45degrees so you can see the wire arcing, the tip should be 5-10mm from the piece you are welding, experiment.

try dropping spots of weld that look like spot welds. You need to see a head circle right about the weld and also on the other side of the panel you have penetration! next cut some holes in a second piece of steel and clamp it tight against the first then "plug" the holes with weld. to low power or too slow wirespeed means that it will not weld through both and secure them. Not enough Gas means that there is loads of splatter

Bit of an art that I am still mastering

edited to add;

Hold the trigger on the torch with one hand sopport the end on the torch near the shroud with the other. I tend to lean my left hand on the workpiece and support the tip using my first finger - obviously wearing gloves

When welding spots give the welder a good 5-10 second blast. If the hole is big then use a circular motion moving from the centre to the outside of the hole. If the weld blows through the power is too high or the torch is running too long

There are loads of tip and tricks on line about how to tell when the weld is good or not. smooth sizzling bacon is what you are aiming for sound wise. smooth weld that stands slightly proud of the piece and has heat haze around it on both sides of the workpiece are good. Dont get excited and think you can seam weld from the start. test your weld to destruction, you shouldnt be able to break it

I tend to lay down a short tag maybe 1cm and then leave a 10-20cm gap and do another. while the first cools and then tag in between etc

Flappy discs are easier than grinding discs on thin steel

position a bright work light shining on the workpiece makes life a lot easier when welding

When working on the car I clean back the steel being welded and then use a Zinc weld through Primer (halfords etc supply) the welded finish is falppy wheeled back before more zinc paint and a quality seam sealer prevents any moisture ingress.

Lastly turn off the regulator feed at the bottle when you finish welding, vent the excess gas from the regulator and torch by pulling the trigger with power on, this prevents any pressure stress damaging your kit. On disposable bottles set the regulator fully open and adjust it back if too much gas is spoiling your weld, remove it when not in use as the regulator can/will leak

A good set of g clamps, welding clamps, butt clamps (snigger) and furniture clamps help hold things in place. alternatively drill and pop rivet but the two pieces being welded must be tight together and free from residue, paint or rust

edited again to add

welding mild steel is easier than stainless, aluminium, birmabrit etc

When welding anything galvanised grind off the galv first unless you like throwing up a lot.

If you wear glasses make sure you wear then inside the welding helmet, sounds funny but I didnt and couldnt work out why it was so difficult lol

I'm bring mine round to yours

[Stag therapy]

Personally took myself off to night school to learn MIG welding.
Get yourself a powder fire extinguisher. Minor fires in the area you are welding are easy to deal with, using a damp cloth or water spray. A fire caused by grinding sparks flying around, possibly some distance from where you are grinding can be more awkward unless you have a fire extinguisher. DAMHIKT

[rac]

Personally took myself off to night school to learn MIG welding.
Get yourself a powder fire extinguisher. Minor fires in the area you are welding are easy to deal with, using a damp cloth or water spray. A fire caused by grinding sparks flying around, possibly some distance from where you are grinding can be more awkward unless you have a fire extinguisher. DAMHIKT

On the subject of grinding sparks be aware that these will damage window glass-be careful and either cover windows up if not able to guide elsewhere

[Staggard]

Not all of us were good at snooker Terry, I was good at table tennis and some were good at darts but lots were very, very good at cards oh and volleyball.

It's all to do with getting your balls in you're pockets Jeff , com'on I know ur good at that ��⚽️⚾️����

[ramjam2005]

Hi Dave... I too decided many years back to tackle the welding myself. Bought all the kit went the self-taught route and practiced and practiced before attacking any real welding on the Stag. As been said here, plenty of stuff on youtube etc but I did buy myself a small welding book which covered MIG.

I also second the Hobbyweld for the larger bottles which I recently invested in the Argon mix as recommended earlier in thread. I used to have a pub so had access to CO2 bottles from BOC but found the Argon mix gave a better clean weld ( achieving that "nice " crackle sound is the trick as others also mentioned) but the Clarke disposable bottles soon run out and gets expensive.

What I would say is that you won't always be welding new to new steel so with that in mind I went to a local car body shop and asked if I could have any old bent panels they were throwing out. I then practiced welding new steel off-cuts to old cleaned steel cut from these panels attempting different contours and welding techniques, i.e Butt welds, overlapped with stitch welds then in-fill to get a continuous weld, plug welds etc etc. All this helps you to get to know your machine and which settings achieve the best weld and correct penetration. Confidence soon builds.

Stick with it as your first welds will look rough as a bears a**e. When watching some of the Car SOS or Wheeler Dealer shows some of their welding looks rough too so I don't feel so bad looking back at mine, surprising what a grinding disk / flappy wheel can do to clean these up. Just be careful of heat build up and distortion.

The other part to welding is getting the correct fit, nice flush and tight, so I'd also invest in some panel beating dollies and hammers as you'll be fettling with aftermarket panels and your homemade patch/closing panels.

Best part is stepping back and looking at your handy work. Good luck.

Ray.

[jakesmig]

Going back to the unexpected fires caused by the welding, the worst ones I had were the ones burning inside box sections when the waxoil went up. I used blasts from my compressor, through the existing access holes, to blow out the fire, I doubt an extinguisher would have been as effective.

[Jeff]

Going back to the unexpected fires caused by the welding, the worst ones I had were the ones burning inside box sections when the waxoil went up. I used blasts from my compressor, through the existing access holes, to blow out the fire, I doubt an extinguisher would have been as effective.

It would have been but a right old mess with the powder type when you clearly did the right thing. Water is best as it reduces temperature, many fires re ignite because the powder or CO2 smothers but doesn't cool enough.

[trunt]

I have been welding for quite a few years now, My 140A Hobart does the job well.

Lots of good advice here but one thing that did not occur to me immediately was that you can wear reading glasses under the helmet!

Nowadays it would be obvious (I cant see squat) but back then when I could actually read a menu (given a bright enough light) without glasses, even though my reading vision was not the best.

Once I started using reading glasses I could see the weld much better and they got a lot better. I even have +2 safety glasses nowadays.

Also get some copper plate/sheet to weld in to, you put it behind the weld and weld right into it, the weld will not stick to the copper and it can assist in e.g filling holes.

Terry

[ramjam2005]

I have been welding for quite a few years now, My 140A Hobart does the job well.

Lots of good advice here but one thing that did not occur to me immediately was that you can wear reading glasses under the helmet!

Nowadays it would be obvious (I cant see squat) but back then when I could actually read a menu (given a bright enough light) without glasses, even though my reading vision was not the best.

Once I started using reading glasses I could see the weld much better and they got a lot better. I even have +2 safety glasses nowadays.

Also get some copper plate/sheet to weld in to, you put it behind the weld and weld right into it, the weld will not stick to the copper and it can assist in e.g filling holes.

Terry

Great minds... I used a similar idea with some 1/4" thick flat aluminium plate. Helps to blank off small voids. Not sure it's the right metal to do it with but achieves the same result.

Ray

[Stagsongas]

Great minds... I used a similar idea with some 1/4" thick flat aluminium plate. Helps to blank off small voids. Not sure it's the right metal to do it with but achieves the same result.

Ray

I have several Copper plates of various sizes which I use in just the same way. Using those allows you to do something akin to continuous casting of steel onto the surface of the Copper and weld it to the existing steel, or the other way around.

You can get results that look far better than an attached plate that way.

Regards

Steve

[StagnJag]

Apologies for the late reply, but thank you to everyone who has replied. There is some very useful stuff there which will be useful to me and anyone else who reads this thread.

As I said in my post, I have a fresh MOT so I am a little way off needing to take a torch to my car! I am currently torn between wanting to do work on the Stag and needing to do work on the house! Welding has always been one of those things I'd love to be able to do, but not had the opportunity or means to do so. I will see what my budget is like in the new year.

There is also the issue of the dubious wiring in my garage. There is a 'Master switch' which turns off all the electric in the garage which seems to be little more than a light switch. There is also a note in the consumer unit in the house from an electrician indicating that the shed/garden lighting/fountain and garage wiring has a 'borrowed neutral' so it will be interesting to see if it copes with the strain of a welder. Someone has suggested that I could hire a set for a weekend and test it out first.


Drew, thanks for the advice on safety gear, I have something to ask Santa for now! I never really left the forum, I just don't post much and don't look in so often these days.

Steve (stagmuffin), thank you kindly for the offer, I may take you up on that at some point. I'll look up the gear you suggested and see what I feel I want to spend, I havent given much thought yet to how much it might all cost!

Richardthestag, thank you for taking the time to write a lengthy reply, that's given me a lot to think about.

Cheers everyone.

Dave