Triumph Stag – Buying Advice Sought

[NigelK]

Dear SOC Forum Users

I am seeking advice on buying a Stag. I am not new to classic car ownership, having owned a 1975 Jensen GT (“shooting brake” version of the Jensen-Healey) for the last 3 years. While I enjoy attending 3-4 classic car shows each year, the main pleasure I get out of owning a classic car is driving it, gophering for parts, and tinkering at relatively simple tasks (suspension, brakes, electrics). I do not have the skills, the garage space or the tools to “play” with engines and gearboxes or to do any welding or body work.

The restoration of my Jensen GT is now pretty much complete and, while I very much enjoy driving it, I am looking to replace it with another classic car I can enjoy gophering for / tinkering with. My preference would be a convertible with proper rear seats, so I can drive both my teenage kids around in it. I am reasonably familiar with the parts supply situation for 1970s British cars, given that the Jensen GT is essentially a “bitza” car incorporating components from other contemporaneous British marques (suspension, steering, axle from the Vauxhall Viva HC / Magnum, rear drum brakes from the TR7, engine from the Lotus Elite / Eclat / Excel, electricals from the Prince of Darkness etc.). It would be good to be able to keep leveraging that familiarity with my next classic.

As an Interceptor Convertible is way beyond my means, the Triumph Stag is an obvious choice for my next classic. I also have fond memories of being driven to school in one by a friend’s dad when I was a kid, and listening to that gorgeous V8 wuffle. I have read enough about the Stag to realise that, in standard form, it is more of a GT cruiser than a sports car. My Jensen, in standard form, was a “boulevard cruiser” (posing car in English) but, through various upgrades completed since I bought it, I have transformed it into a sports car which is still reasonably comfortable to drive to shows on the motorway.

These upgrades are all what I would call “evolutionary” rather than revolutionary. For example, I have had the original mid-1970s vintage Lotus 907 engine upgraded to Lotus “Spec 10” as seen in the late 1980s Lotus Excel, which has resulted in a 30% increase in power and torque. Similarly, I have had the original Getrag 235/5 gearbox replaced with a longer-legged Toyota W58 unit, again as used in the 1980s Lotus Excel. I have also had a Gripper LSD unit installed in the original Vauxhall Viva HC / Magnum live axle. To most observers, my Jensen looks pretty much standard, but underneath it is a very different car to how it was when it left the factory in 1975.

So, if I bought a Stag, I would be looking to upgrade the original TV8 engine to produce more power and torque, with corresponding upgrades to the suspension, steering and brakes to match. There seem to be different schools of thought as to the wisdom of upgrading the TV8 engine, but replacing it with an RV8 (as advocated by Monarch Stags) or Triumph 2.5PI engine would be the kind of “revolutionary” upgrade which I would prefer to avoid. Based on my internet research it would seem that Enginuity, EJ Ward and Faversham Classics are the leading upgraders of the TV8 engine. Is this a reasonable assumption? Aside from improved cooling, electronic ignition, free-flow heads, tubular exhaust system, and possibly EFI, what other engine upgrades would make the TV8 a more sporty engine?

In terms of the gearbox, for me it has to be a manual. How robust is the original gearbox / overdrive? Are the overdrive gear ratios tall enough for relaxed motorway cruising? Or is the TV8 sufficiently torquey that I don’t have to worry about revs on the motorway (bear in mind here that even the upgraded Lotus engine in my Jensen is relatively gutless under 4,000 rpm).

I have also read that polybushing the suspension, upgrading the shock absorbers, and replacing the splined driveshafts can transform the handling. Do these upgrades make the handling more sports car-like, or would a Stag upgraded in this manner still fundamentally be a GT cruiser? What other upgrades would you guys recommend?

What are the ball-park costs of the sort of upgrades I mention above? Should I be looking at buying a Stag with an already rebuilt engine and therefore paying more up-front? Or should I look at a cheaper existing driver with a non-original engine, and look to buy a tired TV8 engine for rebuild / upgrade separately for later installation? Knowing how expensive decent body work can be, I would clearly prefer to buy a vehicle without any significant tin worm.

Finally, who are the most reputable Stag specialists in the West Country (I live near Bath)?

I apologise for asking all these questions, most of which I fear will seem very naïve to the experts on this forum. I also realise that there are no black and white answers to any of my questions. I am merely soliciting as many different views as I can before taking the plunge.

Many thanks in advance!

Best wishes,
Nigel

[kev100]

Hi Nigel,

Welcome ..

Flying Farmer and Stagdad are the threads you need to read up on .. both have EFI, and flying farmer is well into his head modifications ...

Interesting discussions on engine mods going on here http://socforum.com/forum/showthread...ing-the-limits

[Markvsandford]

Hi Nigel
I have my dads stag, he went through a lot of what you are contemplating. My car has a 3.9ltr rover v8 with EFI and canems ECU. I have all the receipts from when the work was done, so by all means get in touch if you want some figures.
all the best
Mark

[davidf]

As for suspension, for many years I accepted that the Stag was a Touring car not a sports car, particularly with slightly imprecise handling. However after replacing all the suspension and steering bushes with poly it totally transformed the precision of the handling. So that is one definite upgrade.

[jbuckl]

Welcome Here,
For the most help, join the club, attend a local meeting, look in the magazine. (cars in the mag are not always available elsewhere)
There are knowledgeable local members who are most likely to be able to assist.
ATB
Julian

[Kithmo]

Do the poly bushes affect road noise and comfort ?

[Carboy0]

Welcome Nigel

I am also a fairly new member, pursuing similar goals to you with my Stag. The one thing that I keep in mind is that the Stag was based on the Triumph 2000 saloon/estate, so it was never designed as a sports car, although the 2000 did rather well as a long distance rally car.

To answer Kithmo's question about polyurethane bushes, my experience is that on my Stag and other classics is that they taughten up the handling allowing less suspension compliance than anything but the freshest rubber bush. I haven't noticed any problems with comfort or road noise. Cars tend to become more predictable in their handling with less wallow.

If you get a chance, get along to a local club meeting and find out who has fitted polyurethane bushes and see if you can cadge a ride and try it for yourself.

[mole42]

The 2.5PI was the developed version of the 2000 and would have been sold as a "GT" if it had been a Ford. It was a fast sports saloon and achieved success in several competitions.

The production Stag wasn't just a re-worked saloon, although it has many similar chassis parts. The whole package was designed for the car using as many off-the-shelf parts as practical to make the costs competitive. Major changes are the engine and the front and rear brakes although the front and rear suspension are pretty much the same as the saloon cars.

I have found the brakes to be effective on fast work simply by replacing the pads with a more competition-oriented grade and replacing the rubber hoses with steel braided ones. It is worthwhile replacing many of the suspension bushes with poly, although the rear subframe to body mounts are best left rubber, as are the diff mounts. That keeps some road noise damped and doesn't seem to make much difference to handling.

The Stag is a fast cruiser and will easily maintain 100mph (in countries where it is legal) over long distances. The only area where I personally would like to spend time and money is reducing the wind noise with the hard top fitted, it makes long distance trips a little tiring!

Richard

[flying farmer]

I found the standard suspension to be very sloppy but poly bushes transform this. Both my stags have Tony Harts lowered progressive springs, cut body roll a huge amount but without ruining ride quality.
One Stag is fitted with KYB front and rear shocks from James Paddock, slightly stiffer than the standard shocks which are a little weak with the uprated springs, but again not too firm.
Many people have good things to say about the CV jointed drive shafts, this is on the to do list with both my Stags.

Don't worry about the gearing with a manual overdrive Stag, it is about 25mph/1000rpm depending on tyre size, and the gearboxes and overdrives are pretty reliable, the Later J type being better than the A type in my opinion (not yet broken a J type).

Ideally you should look for a good body with a non standard engine as these are significantly cheaper (especially Ford V6 or Triumph 2.5), they are often the price of a rebuilt Stag engine cheaper than a Stag engine car. You could then source a Stag unit to rebuild, but non Stag engine Stags are getting much rarer these days!

Most of the performance upgrades offered at the moment don't seem to give big increases due to the design of the inlet manifold. efi can give huge improvements, but at the moment the inlet manifold is a DIY project.
I was talking to the guy from Classic Developments (they do the uprated driveshafts among other things) at the TR register International last year, and he has been asked by well known Triumph specialist to investigate the development of an injection manifold.
Whether this will ever turn into a commercial reality is a different matter, though I would have thought using a batch of laser cut components would make fabricating a few sets viable.
Neil