Water in the "V" - lots!

[022Dave]

For a while now I've had an annoying drip of coolant onto the garage floor, and over recent months, I've changed all of the hoses. Today, after no improvement, I changed the thermostat housing gasket, thinking that might be the cause. On engine start up, coolant filled the "V", and ran down the back of the engine. I switched off immediately, and the flow stopped. I have a supplementary electric water pump fitted, so switched that on, and again the flow started, and was gushing from under the inlet manifold, seemingly around the rear of the water pump.

My question is: would the gasket let go so spectacularly, or could it be the graphite seal that's failed? If it is the gasket, should I consider a refurbished water pump, or could I just replace the gasket? I have it in the back of my mind that the gaskets are of different thickness, and feeler gauges are needed to set the WP cover correctly. The pump was overhauled by Clive Tate about seven years / 10k miles ago, when he rebuilt the engine.

Dave

[DJT]

Hi Dave,

It is most unusual for the WP cover gaskets to let go. Can you get hold of an endoscope type camera and peek under the manifold whilst you start the electric pump? Preferably after drying everything off and puffing talc into the vee? This may identify where the water is coming from. It could be an inlet manifold gasket has gone.

[Bandit1200]

Hello Dave
Can you please describe the supplementary water pump you have installed?
Thanks
Steve

[022Dave]

Hi Dave,

It is most unusual for the WP cover gaskets to let go. Can you get hold of an endoscope type camera and peek under the manifold whilst you start the electric pump? Preferably after drying everything off and puffing talc into the vee? This may identify where the water is coming from. It could be an inlet manifold gasket has gone.

Hello Dave; good to hear from you! I've got an endoscope camera, but it just gets swamped when the engine is running! It is more than just weeping, it's chucking out. I'm certain that it's not the inlet gaskets. I had Clive replace the head gaskets along with the timing chains two years ago, before we moved back to Cornwall, so they are all fairly recent. In previous threads about water in the "V", there has been talk about oil or water venting out when the seal goes, but I believe that this wouldn't lead to the type of flow that I'm experiencing.

Other Dave

[022Dave]

Hello Dave
Can you please describe the supplementary water pump you have installed?
Thanks
Steve

Hello Steve, it is the Davies Craig EWS, plumbed into the lower radiator hose.

Dave

[Ian Durrant]

The inlet manifold transfers water from one head to the other. ISTR there is a core plug on the underside of the manifold (though I could well be wrong) if so maybe that has rusted through?

I haven't had a water pump seal go but I would have thought, if its gushing like that, its not the seal.

[Andrew S]

Hi Dave, are you sure it couldn't be an inlet manifold gasket as they let go suddenly and appear to be the pump?

[flying farmer]

A few years ago on my estate I had exactly the same thing happen. On stripping it down it appeared what had happened was a large rust flake had come off the water pump shaft.

This had been dragged round and round by the rotation of the shaft and cut through the rubber section below the graphite seal.

This rubber section allows the seal to move up and down (it is spring loaded), and when it got cut though it emptied the cooling system within seconds. Fortunately I was just closing the garage door after getting the car out of the garage and not some distance down the road.

I would suggest removing the pump and replacing it with a bung and just using the electric pump since you already have it fitted.
Neil

[DJT]

Another option, suggested by someone who can no longer post but who had the same problem a few years ago. When you replaced the thermostat housing gasket, are you 100% sure that the gasket didn't slip and prevent the cover seating properly?

[022Dave]

Thanks all; I didn't realise that the inlet manifold had a core plug, so will look at that. I had new core plugs fitted to the heads when they were off, so I'm assuming those are still shiny & sound.

Looking with my endoscope camera, the inlet gaskets look OK, insofar as there's no gasket material sticking out commensurate with the rate of flow.

I'll have to give the sole reliance on the EWS some further thought; I know Roger Phillips had problems initially when he took that route; I seem to remember that he needed a second pump for the heater to work effectively. I also like a bit of redundancy by having two pumps!

Spookily it's booked in for an MOT tomorrow at our local Morgan garage, and I've already got them lined up to change the front stubs & hubs for uprated CDD units (I don't have access to a press to get the old stub axles out), so I might dig deeper into my wallet for them to look at the new 'water feature'. Thanks again for your advice; I'll report back with their findings.

Dave

[022Dave]

Another option, suggested by someone who can no longer post but who had the same problem a few years ago. When you replaced the thermostat housing gasket, are you 100% sure that the gasket didn't slip and prevent the cover seating properly?

That was the first thing I checked, Dave! It's completely dry, and is equally spaced around the housing. The coolant is definitely pouring out from under the inlet manifold.

[Bandit1200]

Hello Steve, it is the Davies Craig EWS, plumbed into the lower radiator hose.

Dave

Hi Dave
Having recently installed a DC EEWP my understanding is that it is not a supplementary system but a replacement for the standard water pump.
Did you remove the old impeller and replace with a bung?
Steve

[Andrew S]

Hi Dave, as Ian has commented, there is a small core plug under the inlet manifold, could have sprung a leak? Thinking about it further, if the car is warmed up and the water runs down the V then if you turn the engine off, the pump will stop and any water its trying to disperse should stop as the flinger will not be turning and that just leaves the water pressure remaining and a gasket leaking. When fired up again, it will chuck more water out whereas a gasket should leak at the same rate, wouldn't it?

[022Dave]

Hello Steve, my EWP has been in place for about 10 years, but I kept the mechanical pump. My EWP comes on 2-degrees C before the Kenlowe, just to boost water circulation through the radiator.

Dave

[022Dave]

Hi Dave, as Ian has commented, there is a small core plug under the inlet manifold, could have sprung a leak? Thinking about it further, if the car is warmed up and the water runs down the V then if you turn the engine off, the pump will stop and any water its trying to disperse should stop as the flinger will not be turning and that just leaves the water pressure remaining and a gasket leaking. When fired up again, it will chuck more water out whereas a gasket should leak at the same rate, wouldn't it?

Hi Andrew, I've just looked at the Rimmers parts catalogue and there is indeed a core plug under the manifold in the same area as the water appears to be coming from. I'm hoping that is the culprit rather than the mechanical pump. I didn't risk running it up to temperature, so not sure what effects pressure would have. My challenge tomorrow will be to get it to the garage!

Dave