Fire extinguisher.

[Jeff]

A short while ago we were discussing suitable extinguishers.

In a bar in Cyprus, they have these mounted on the ceiling all over the restaurant.

Cheap, effective and simple alternative to a mains water fed sprinkler system.

Each container contains water with a sprinkler rose to 'spray' the water after the heat of the fire 'breaks' the bulb that seals the water as in a normal sprinkler installation, ingenious!

If one was fitted above the stag when parked in a garage, it would give peace of mind and if for any reason it activated, there would be only water damage(apart from any fire damage) as opposed to the mess a dry powder type would make, even for a small fire. The contents of the cylinder would obviously empty all the water content as once the bulb has broken, it cannot shut off.

[KOY 23]

Hope the installers don't get confused between red and orange.

[Motorsport Micky]

That looks a really interesting device, I've just up rated the car fire extinguisher to a 2 kg and reading the instructions (just for a change) it states a complete discharge time of 15 seconds which doesn't sound much when faced say with an underbonnet Fire. I suppose it helps that you can direct the extinguisher at the base of the fire source maximising what the extinguisher can do, but would a water non directional system limited to a bucket sized capacity like these be enough ?

Micky

[HersnotHis]

Some years ago I attended a half day fire risk awareness and first line firefighting course.

It was demonstrated that water even from a hosepipe was pretty ineffective against fires involving oil. petrol, and electrical insulation. Dry powder extinguishers did the job much better.

I believe the fire brigade use a foam when a fire appliance is called to a car fire?

H

[Jeff]

Hi Mickey,

It is probably for property as opposed to a car, just thought it was a good idea and better than nothing. Ideal in my garage as it is timber construction. It is also fully automatic, 24/7 as opposed to a hand held extinguisher regardless of media.

Now for the 'experts', after 30 years of my fire service career, most car fires were extinguished with high pressure hose reels supplying only plain water quite effectively, we never used foam as such as that requires the application of a 'blanket' which of course you cannot apply on car, but then came along ATTTF, for the uneducated that means aqueous film forming foam, which does not require the application of a blanket as such and very, very quickly knocks down a fire especially after unleaded petrol was introduced which ignited far more readily than leaded fuel.

We still initially only used plain water due to the cost of ATTTF, but if the car fire was not dealt with water alone then ATTTF would be deployed.

I attended more and more rta's or rtc's as they are called now, for the uneducated that was road traffic accident changed to road traffic collsion as in reality there is no such thing as an accident, which if you look it up is an unplanned event, and more and more being called to a car fire following an rta or rtc.

Anyway, I noticed (as a junior officer and being responsible for the fire report) that more fires were happening due to unleaded fuel.

Jeff

[mole42]

At the last fire course I went to, we were told never to open the bonnet of a car with an engine fire since that simply allows more oxygen in to help the burning fuel. We were told that, if an extinguisher were to hand to direct it upwards into the engine bay from beneath the front of the vehicle. Apparently that works more effectively.
Fortunately, I've never had to use an extinguisher on a vehicle fire.
Richard

[Jeff]

How do you know if it's burning fuel? Electrical fires just as common. Burning fuel does give a clue only if it's dripping under the car.

One of the most frustrating things on attacking a car fire was trying to open the bonnet when the cable release was gone.

Spent so much time using a crow bar to open them. The bonnet had to be open to attack the fire but only once a hose reel was in place. Would often squirt water through the grill at first but there's a radiator in the way unless it was a mini or maxi.

Never, ever managed to extinguish a car fire completely without opening the bonnet and never would, standard practice, but then we had more than just a small hand held extinguisher.

[davidf]

At the last fire course I went to, we were told never to open the bonnet of a car with an engine fire since that simply allows more oxygen in to help the burning fuel. We were told that, if an extinguisher were to hand to direct it upwards into the engine bay from beneath the front of the vehicle. Apparently that works more effectively.
Fortunately, I've never had to use an extinguisher on a vehicle fire.
Richard

I have had to try with an extinguisher, on a Stag with an under-bonnet fuel fire. Extinguisher completely useless - where would you get it into the engine bay - so much space between the chassis rails and the engine, isn't there!! And you are going to lie down amongst the burning crap with your hand underneath to squirt up?
Unfortunately, the Fire Brigade did not arrive till just after the fire had burnt through the plastic fuse holder and set the whole interior alight.
After extinguishing, they did say I was right not to have opened the bonnet - in the words of the fire officer, "you only do that if you have one of these behind you", pointing to his very large fire engine.

[flying farmer]

When my Stag burst into flames last year due to a burst injector hose, the first thing I did was open the bonnet. Whole engine bay was a mass of flames, put out quickly with a dry powder extinguisher which was fortunately only a few yards away.

Could not have put it out without opening the bonnet. Melted a lot of the engine bay wiring loom, but the only paint damage was on the inner wing as the bonnet opens past vertical. Would do exactly the same thing if it happened again!

Neil

[gbb483]

I had an engine fire on a 'Wolsey 6' - fuel leak from the carbs to the exhaust which then burnt through the fuel hose. Put it out with handfuls of dirt from the verge long before any assistance turned up.

[Flying stag]

We use a similar set up to the breakable bulb in the waste bins on aeroplanes. Bin catches fire, bulb break, squirts a load of BCF into the bin, the fire goes out. (nasty stuff but very effective hence why it's still in use in certain applications)

Interesting to see something similar used elsewhere.

[Jeff]

As good as BCF is, BTM is better but I thought BCF was banned?

[Flying stag]

As good as BCF is, BTM is better but I thought BCF was banned?

It is for general use, however the aviation industry has a dispensation for it because it is so effective without adversely affecting people still on board, so we can use it airborne.

I don't know anything about BTM, does it work in a similar way to BCF?

[Jeff]

I believe it has a quicker knock down, as if BCF isn't quick enough!

I worked at Mars when I was 18 and they replaced all their BCF equipment with BTM, so if it was good enough for them and they had no financial problem then it must be better?

Also BCF is difluoro and BTM is trifluoro so one more fluoro may make all the difference:-)

[Flying stag]

you lost me at difluoro