Maserati 4.7 V8 engine into a Stag?

[mole42]

Would it be possible to put a Maserati 4.7l V8 into a Stag? There's a few on ebay for about half the price of a rebuilt Stag V8 and they claim about 400bhp.

Just a thought for a hot afternoon!

[mjheathcote]

Having a Maserati Coupe as well as the Stag, the Stag with 400 brake would be in the ditch at the first opportunity!!
It would be a difficult transplant, I would say the engine would be too wide and too tight a squeeze with the exhaust manifolds.
Electrics would be a nightmare aswell, with all the ecu's.

[Guest]

they claim about 400bhp.

Yes a POS engine in a POS car as usual!

Have you seen the numbers of them that go wrong?
There used to be stacks of them in the main Bentley/Maserati dealer in Moscow, they simply couldn't keep up with the warranty claims so were even stripping brand new cars for heads.

Stupid design results in overheating of the cam bearing just behind the drive belt, NICE!
Typical mother of all f.ups, as most overrated, overbloated Maser stuff usually is. remember the Citroen Sado Maso.
Same story.

Or this stupid idea?
Twin plug cos they can't get their head to burn right?



I reckon the only nice engine they ever made was the biturbo, but that had terrible handling too.

[mole42]

Yes a POS engine
remember the Citroen Sado Maso.
Same story.

When the SM was new, my neighbour was a Citroen dealer and used one of those as a demonstrator. He didn't keep it long. Apparently bloody quick when it was running, bloody expensive when it stopped.

[Guest]

I watched in dismay some French mechanics working on an old POS SM last summer.

You have the typical single point of failure on such cars, which means they are as good as useless for simple banal reasons which other's don't have.
The fuel pump had failed....
Offending unit/tank is reached from under the car.
What genius designed a car that when it doesn't start, it sits on the floor...suspension won't rise, impossible to get a jack under the damn ton of bricks weight, can't get a garage hoist anywhere near it and is almost impossible to move.

Try changing a fuel pump eh! Then next comes the grenading maserati piece of rubbish with a jackshaft 3 ft long going thru the middle of it, driving the garden saw, the garden well water pump, the wind machine and ever accessory you can invent known to man!

It sums up the French pretty adequately.
Devoid of anything remotely resembling pragmatism they are happy to blag on about the theoretical superiority of pretty much everything French, except it's useless, won't start, and won't do what it says on the tin.

Look at super-phoenix.
Great as a nuclear power research idea but hopeless as anything useful.
Absorbed vast billions, then they turn round and say ' hey proof of concept eh"?

Now they have some nutter called Nicolas Hulot running their eco lunatic government, and the ex wife of the last total fail Hollande, appointed as the minister for the artic, except there's not one bit of France that's even remotely close to the arctic circle, unless you count freezing wet Calais or Lille in January!

You couldn't make it up.

Mention the word French wine of course, and they go into rapture, except there is nothing French about it at all, it was the damn yankees rescued the entire French wine industry from Philoxera thanks to California, and then the damn Germans rescued Bordeaux from their almost certain bankrupcy by buying nearly all the output during the war to send to the troops on the Eastern Front in Russia.

[jagorstag]

It certainly would be an interesting challenge! And you probably would anyway be using an aftermarket ECU unit instead of trying to get the Maser's own electronics working...

I suppose putting an Italian engine in a Stag designed by an Italian just kind of feels right, and how hard could it possibly be?!?!

Cheers,
Joakim

[Guest]

400bhp?
I think Neil may have proved pretty conclusively the futility of putting anything more than 220bhp into that chassis, so he dropped it into a TR5 instead.

Have you ever driven a Triumph 2.5pi with more than about 180bhp?
There's a couple in OZ which are pretty darn quick.
They had to upgrade pretty much everything on the car, and now they're on the par with the better developed Datsuns Zs.

350bhp+?
Get an Aston instead.
Much prettier, better engineered, better handling, and not out of fashion any time soon.

[mjheathcote]

Yes a POS engine in a POS car as usual!

Have you seen the numbers of them that go wrong?
There used to be stacks of them in the main Bentley/Maserati dealer in Moscow, they simply couldn't keep up with the warranty claims so were even stripping brand new cars for heads.

Stupid design results in overheating of the cam bearing just behind the drive belt, NICE!
Typical mother of all f.ups, as most overrated, overbloated Maser stuff usually is. remember the Citroen Sado Maso.
Same story.

Or this stupid idea?
Twin plug cos they can't get their head to burn right?



I reckon the only nice engine they ever made was the biturbo, but that had terrible handling too.

i think we are referring to the 4.7 v8 as developed by Ferrari as fitted to the current Grantourismo and Quattroporte, not the straight six of the 60's!!

[vadas1]

How much does a Maserati V8 weight? How are going to adjust the spring rates? Which rear end are you going to use? Even the current BMW transplants have a horsepower limit of around 300 bhp. What transmission? Transmission mounts? My current 3.9 Rover EFI is pushing the limits of my chassis giving it a very TVR flavour. Just mulling.

Cheers

Ralph

[mjheathcote]

How much does a Maserati V8 weight? How are going to adjust the spring rates? Which rear end are you going to use? Even the current BMW transplants have a horsepower limit of around 300 bhp. What transmission? Transmission mounts? My current 3.9 Rover EFI is pushing the limits of my chassis giving it a very TVR flavour. Just mulling.

Cheers

Ralph

It will never happen. Fantasy.
Don't think weight will be a problem, the engine is aluminium.
Transmission wise, the 4.7 is either hooked up to a Zf auto, or a mc shift robotised manual rear mounted combined gearbox/differential. You would have to use the auto version of the engine for a bellhousing.
The maserati has aluminium double wishbone suspension front and back with massive brakes and wheels to handle the power. The Stag chassis just can't compare in any way.
The only way you could do it would be to cut off the maserati body shell leaving the floor pan and weld the Stag body shell on top. The width of the track front and back could be a problem though!!

[Guest]

The maserati has aluminium double wishbone suspension front and back with massive brakes and wheels to handle the power. The Stag chassis just can't compare in any way.

Yes and I've been under one.
The thing is absolutely 'ORRIBLE, the complete reverse of nice engineering, all bling and bollox.
The huge brakes are to cope with the humungeous bloat and weight, then they try to jam it with nasty forged alloy parts in a pathetic effort to reduce the collossal unsprung weight introduced by the giant size wheels.

Anyone heard of a performance car weighing almost 2 ton?
Here you are 1,880 kg DRY no driver.

I can blow one away dead easy with a 30yr old Jag.
Been there done it, and was in shock to see how easy it was.
Honestly you think that is progress??

I'll bet any decently prepared 1960s 2.5pi will blow one into the woodwork.
180bhp yes but ONE TON, so the brakes work, the car goes round corners and it actually accelerates in the apexes.
You ever seen a Nissan Skyline being pushed a bit hard?
Same problem, 2 laps and the brakes and tyres are gone.

I'll bet Neil's modified TV8 based car would lap a Maserati in no time on Mallory circuit.
It would be a laugh!

As for the Stag chassis not comparing in any way.
Totally beg to differ.
Tell me which model of Porsche supercar DOES NOT HAVE basically a rear suspension like a STAG?
Even the old Sierra Cosworth group A- SAME, semi trailing arms, (except Fords loved cheapo front Macphersons which is why they weren't so great.)

The Stag is a strut, but NOT a macpherson.
Looked recently in WRC rally cars?
SAME.

[mjheathcote]

The Granturismo is a grand tourer don't forget, and a big one at that, the weight is relative as a result.
My 4200 is quite a big lighter, still a 4 seat grand tourer, but also has a dry sumped engine with the double wishbone suspension also having height adjustable spring platforms with 'skyhook' constantly variable dampers.
When I have been underneath mine, I think it is a piece of art to be honest!
I've driven mine on track numerous times, and also as a passenger with a professional racing driver at the wheel.
I really find it difficult to imagine a 2.5pi blowing it into the woodwork, but that is your opinion!
...don't forget they had a race series with Trofeo race prepared cars, both based on 4200's like mine and the later Granturismo's.

[jagorstag]

.... My 4200 is quite a big lighter....
I really find it difficult to imagine a 2.5pi blowing it into the woodwork, but that is your opinion!

Surely it should be possible to have a race organized to find out?!?!

RACE! RACE! RACE!

[mjheathcote]

Surely it should be possible to have a race organized to find out?!?!

RACE! RACE! RACE!

That would be interesting for sure!
If a standard car, would want someone like this guy at the wheel!

[Guest]

Surely it should be possible to have a race organized to find out?!?!
RACE! RACE! RACE!

Well I can only quote the owner from down under.
He has one of the latest high performance beemers and the old 2.5pi.

That thing looks pretty innocent, but with an all steel engine, and loads of fun stuff under there...

The beemer is not so heavy and about 380bhp, it eats up straights.
After 2-3 laps the brakes & tyres are a gonner.

However despite the 2.5pi being much much slower in the straights it eats the Beemer for breakfast in the corners, and will do it lap after lap after lap without missing a beat.
Looking at the lap times?

IMG_2903a.jpg

Pretty much identical, except after a few laps the Triumph is leaving the hot soggy beemer behind wallowing in bloat, heat, and gone off tyres.

I remember seeing a 30s fraser nash do a trick like this years back in a sprint.
The thing had tyres like off a push bike, weighed next to nothing, and mouth dropping performance when seeing the lap times....

What is on paper, and what actually matter are totally different things.
I love to see these so called 450bhp "supercars".
Most of them including the latest Jags F type, XFR with 380, 400, 500bhp are just horrible bloated slugs in reality.
Driven them. YUCK!

(I did watch the video above! That car handles like an absolute PIG, no grip, constantly opposite locking in the corners, dampers are clearly absolutely horrible, really can't imagine anything worse or more grotesque. I would leave it for dead in a flash with the Jag!)