Grampian Stag oil article

[Mark Serj]

Just read an interesting article from the Grampian Stag site on oil - very thought provoking - have a look when you get chance

Cheers

Mark

[marshman]

Interesting read but I suspect it was written a few years back - based on the fact it states Halford 20W50 is £6.99 for 5 litres! Because of this the statements about the API service levels is no longer true, i.e "All API specs comprehend all previous ones, so if an oil's an SJ it will also pass SC." BUT there are now more recent service levels (SL, SM & SN) which are all current and are substantially different and not necessarily compatible for all engines. There are 4 "current" service grades as follows:

SN	Current	Introduced in October 2010, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
SM	Current	For 2010 and older automotive engines.
SL	Current	For 2004 and older automotive engines.
SJ	Current	For 2001 and older automotive engines.

The "composition" and "characteristics" of each oil are different. For our cars (TV8) the important factor is the level of ZDDP. In the latest specs the level of Zinc (needed to protect the sliding tappets/camshaft lobes is lower than the earlier ones. SJ is specified as 1000 to 1400 ppm where as the later specs there is a maximum of 800 ppm - many oils are much less. The level of ZDDP is generally what makes a "classic oil" coupled with the correct viscosity range.

Roger

[Motorsport Micky]

We all go round and round, ongoing TR Register oil discussion from about the last month. Funny how those companies that now don't supply the aimed for 1100-1300 ZDDP levels )it's costly) now claim that the API levels make it up...uh. Why do they not make the levels easy to find out of it doesn't matter ?...Oh.

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/62855-opie-oils-10-offer/?hl=%2Bopie+%2Boils

Mick Richards

[Staggering About]

It was written a long time ago.
I'll have to look at it when I get back from our Northern Ireland tour.
Alan (Grampianstag site owner)

[davidf]

Interesting piece from the Rover P6 club dated 2012 - I assume it is still valid http://www.p6club.com/content/oil-and-zddp
(and by the way, Halfords and Comma are the same oil - check the data sheet on the Halfords site; it has the Comma logo and identifies Comma as the manufacturer)



Personally I always add STP oil additive after a friend showed me how it 'clings' to surfaces long after oil would have drained away, thus protecting for the first few moments after starting (particularly as the Stag can be unused for quite a few weeks at times). This does contain ZDDP although I don't know how much. I use it with the Halfords Classic oil.

[Mark Serj]

Which additive in particular do you add please David?

Regards

[wilf]

If you fancy a long read, try this:

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

[marshman]

If you fancy a long read, try this:

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

You are not kidding, been skim reading it for 30 mins, still not finished!

[wilf]

Very interesting though..............could turn some long held concepts upside down.

[davidf]

Which additive in particular do you add please David?

Regards

This one

http://www.stp.com/products/oil-additives/oil-treatment

[Mark Serj]

Now that WAS a fascinating read. I need to read it again to let a few points sink in, however, I found the following of real interest:

1. Viscosities section pages 70 - 75 (at cold, a 10W30 oil is 2.4 times thinner than 20W50 and 90% of engine wear occurs at start up)
2. Compression ratio calcs pages 132+
3. What a waste of time zinc additives are
4. Valvoline VR1 racing 10W30 oil has the worst thermal breakdown properties, may not be the same for 20W50 though?
5. Shame Valvoline VR1 20W50 wasn't shown, however some of the Valvolines performed well, especially the 5W30 Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage with MaxLife Technology, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved (silver bottle) = 123,470 psi wear protection
6. Chapter 20 oil volume vs oil pressure very interesting - making me think a thinner oil is worth a re-think from 20W50

And loads more, very thought provoking - if you can be bothered mind you!

Cheers

[wilf]

Interesting - I read that zinc additives were good, but only up to a certain dosage point, whereupon they became a negative.

But a friend of mine with a very high performance FE 427so has just wiped a cam lobe and will be changing his oil to the Mobil one that came top of the list. (I told him not to use a solid flat tappet cam but would he listen lol?)

[Motorsport Micky]

Yep, it's been going the rounds for a few years. He says he's carried out multiple oil testing through a well known lab but I don't know Rick Jackson (540 RAT) or his testing rig so it's difficult to judge whether what he says is correct or not. As I've read it many of his tests are carried out on a "one arm bandit" as known In the trade, a shear test rig for oils etc, worked by pulling down on a handle, necessarily this is done when the oil is cold, only trouble is whether or not it's comparable to how a hot engine treats the oils ?
I don't know what to make of it, either he's a maverick lone genius trying to usurp the evil oil manufacturers or he's one of the many internet geeks with enough knowledge to fool people like me who have even less ! I guess I'll try and find out more before I accept or dismiss what he says.

Micky

[bonnietiler750]

Always interesting Oil isn't it..I use 20w50 VR-1 in the stag I'm not certain that it makes a huge difference from the 50ltr drum of semi-Synthetic 10w40 that I have, what I do know is that the phrase "Semi-Synthetic" hides a multitude of possibilities a little like "Water-Resistant"..A paper bag is in fact Water Resistant..and Some "Semi-Synthetic" oils only have 10% Synthetic constituents, I believe the record is 5%. But my Stag loses a little oil through general use, I'm told that this is Typical and not in fact limited to "Classics". My sister returned her 2017 Mercedes A-Class diesel as it was consuming oil a rate of more than a Pint a tankful to be told that this was typical and not to worry?
My Rover engined TR7V8 does not consume oil at all and I run it on Fuchs Full Synth 20w50 which comes out a very similar colour to which it goes in. But if it used oil more like the Stag that would be a very expensive method of lubrication

[Mark Serj]

am pretty sure I read in his paper that he doesn't use the one arm bandit kit