Timing Chains

[Stag Beetle]

The old chestnut comes to the forum again!

Timing Chains need replacing, been getting noise on cold starts and the garage thinks they probably need changing but will investigate further. I will be having the sprockets done while I am at it, but I cannot decided which type to get if they need changing.

These have been on for the last 12k so unless they find another problem they have not lasted very long. I know at this point people are going to say

“you wouldn’t have got any warning with German ones and they would have broke, and I would rather have warning rattle at every 12k” (if I am getting rattle at 12K sounds like they nearly broke anyway)

I wonder if the German would get me a bit further i.e. around the twenty five thousand miles mark before changing them again?

My question is this has anyone actually had the German ones break? Or is it an urban myth.

[DJT]

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Stag Beetle wrote:

The old chestnut comes to the forum again!

Timing Chains need replacing, been getting noise on cold starts and the garage thinks they probably need changing but will investigate further. I will be having the sprockets done while I am at it, but I cannot decided which type to get if they need changing.

These have been on for the last 12k so unless they find another problem they have not lasted very long. I know at this point people are going to say

“you wouldn’t have got any warning with German ones and they would have broke, and I would rather have warning rattle at every 12k” (if I am getting rattle at 12K sounds like they nearly broke anyway)

I wonder if the German would get me a bit further i.e. around the twenty five thousand miles mark before changing them again?

My question is this has anyone actually had the German ones break? Or is it an urban myth.

I have had 40,000 miles out of a set of Rolon chains and there was still plenty of life left in them. No rattles and , when held horizontally, they had no more bend than the new ones that went in. Changed them as the block was being rebored. Peter Howells has stated he has had 90,000 out of a set of standard chains.

Regular oil changes, correct oil, good filter and no thrashing the engine from cold are essential to good chain life, IMHO.

Dave

[Gresley]

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My Stag had German chains fitted in 1988. I changed them earlier this year after 25,000 miles for the standard type. The chains weren't bad but the sprockets were shot:shock:

Brian

[Stag Beetle]

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:?

[nib]

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Hi Stag Beetle

I have had a german chain snap on me in the late 80s,so whether they have got better that I dont know but I would never put them on a car of mine again.

Howard Vesey in Triumph World Nov 2007 done a piece on the Stag engine and this is the bit on timing chains word for word.

Some owners prefer to use uprated german chains,which are said to last longer.However,Howard feels that the tensioner rubbers and guides tend to detoiorate anyway in time,necessitating an early stripdown even if the chains are still in good condition.He finds that the standerd chains are fine and they should be changed together with the sprockets guides and tensioners.

Mark

[martin]

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Stag Beetle wrote:

The old chestnut comes to the forum again!

Hiya, as Dave says, 3000 mile oil & filter changes, best quality oil and they will last, mine have done 43.000 miles, I'm getting nervous now, so they're up for changing, but - touch wood - they'restill quiet.

Back in the day, these cars were not serviced as they should have been, and one result was shot old oil and chain failure, it'sdifficult to imagine anybody treats them like that now. The chainsare recognised as a design fault, i.e. they're too long, butthe German ones strike me as too much of a risk, as Brian pointed out, his sprockets were shot, not a lot of difference between timing chains breaking or jumping a couple of teeth, you'll still get bent valves. Martin.

[MB]

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What we need is some one very clever to produce a duplex timing chain kit.

The New Zealand targa Stag apparently has them.

http://stagownersclub.mywowbb.com/forum1/3813-1.html

Not sure if thats 1 long duplex chain or 2 normal length. I'm sure something would be turning the wrong way with 1 continuous (jack-shaft?)and 2 separate chains would make the timing cover a lot deeper.It doesn't show how its done in the pictures.

[Bob Heritage]

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I fitted the German chains recently after being recommended to use them. Apparently Mike Allen SOCTFL chairman has done 80.000 mls with them in his Stag. I think the standard ones are fine if you get the right ones. There are a lot of dodgy Indian ones out there.

[STAG1973]

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Is it worth changing the tensionersand sprocketsas well as the chains?

Adrian

[redstag]

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I wasn't too confident about them at the time, but I fitted Rolon chains.They have now covered 40,000miles with no sign of wear or any rattling on start up or idle.

I didn't like the look of the Rolon tensioners though, so I re-used the Renold ones that I had previously fitted another 40,000 miles earlier. There were also reports at the time that the bonding on the chain guides was failing on some repro items so I re-used the ones I had which I knew were OEM. Both the guides and the tensioners were showing very little sign of wear.

This means that most of my timing gear has now covered 80,000 miles and the chains 40,000.

It's going to be really interesting to see the condition of the parts next time I change them - not sure when that will be though as there is no obvious sign of wear yet.

Pete

[STAG1973]

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Where would be the best place to buy sprockets and tensioners???

The chains i think i would buy from Tony Hart or LD`s

A friend of mine replaced his chains, sprockets and tensioners with replacement parts from a popular supplier, with in the first 200 miles the crank sprocket striped it`s teeth and damaged the new heads,

Adrian

[Bob Heritage]

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STAG1973 wrote:

Where would be the best place to buy sprockets and tensioners???

The chains i think i would buy from Tony Hart or LD`s

A friend of mine replaced his chains, sprockets and tensioners with replacement parts from a popular supplier, with in the first 200 miles the crank sprocket striped it`s teeth and damaged the new heads,

Adrian

Unfortunately I think the sprockets and tensioners are all sourced from the same supplier, I had the same hesitation. I know of somebody who bought from RB and they stripped like you have just described, he had them tested for hardness and they were 20% softer than original. Your choice of suppliers is O.K. and I would add S.O.C. Spares to your list also. The latest theory is that the jackshaft seizes which stops the chains dead and the engine motion carries on and tears the teeth off the cam sprockets.

[STAG1973]

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Yes they were from RB but they did not want to know.

Adrian.

[Russell]

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Mine are quiet, but no idea when they were last done (or at all) so i better get these done!!!!

Standard ones for me by the sound of it.

[Stag Beetle]

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Forgot to say they have done 10k in ten years so lots of cold starts and small trips, so this could account for the low miles