Hi Torque Starter Motor

[SwissSteve]

I just received a new hi torque starter motor from RobSport.

When I took it out of the box I noticed there is only two connections, a spade and a larger ring connector however my existing starter has one ring and two spade connectors.

Anyone fitted one of these starter motors or have they sent me a wrong one?

Have pinged RobSport but though tI woul dask regardless on the forum whilst waiting

[GDPR]

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Your new one seems to be missing the 12v terminal for cold start to your ballasted coil.

You'll have to gash the system up with a relay to sort your cold start wire out.

Russ:dude:

[SwissSteve]

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Will have a chat with the supplier today see what they have to say. Surprising that a stag specialist sells just the starter motor without other parts needed to fit it to the car. I saw the same starter on offer from E J Ward.

[SwissSteve]

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Some feedback.

One supplier told me to only connect up the two larger cables, the smalle rof the 3 is for the ballast which is no longer required so just tape it up.

The second advice I got is to either tape it up or connect it to a 12v feed from the fuse box!

Interesting, need to check this out with the wiring diagram tonight and see what is going on.

[GDPR]

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The small wire is designed to bypass the ballast resistor to shove 12v into a 6v coil while cranking to give you a hotter spark for starting. It is achieved by a contact within the solenoid which only makes contact during the cranking phase - some think you can just join it up to the big wire, as after all it is only live while cranking.......WRONG!! What'll happen is the 6v from the coil ballast resistor will backfeed the solenoid and because of the load of the solenoid coil and the ignition coil being powered will fry your wiring loom in the process of frying the ballast wire.....

If you just tape it up you lose this cold start facility, but it is a simple job to wire in a relay to perform the same function for a fiver.

Russ

[SwissSteve]

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I discussed this with the supplier before and their argument is that the combination of the electronic ignition and new hi torque starter motor makes the cold start feature obsolete.

[V8 Rumbler]

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kryten wrote:

The small wire is designed to bypass the ballast resistor to shove 12v into a 6v coil while cranking to give you a hotter spark for starting. It is achieved by a contact within the solenoid which only makes contact during the cranking phase - some think you can just join it up to the big wire, as after all it is only live while cranking.......WRONG!! What'll happen is the 6v from the coil ballast resistor will backfeed the solenoid and because of the load of the solenoid coil and the ignition coil being powered will fry your wiring loom in the process of frying the ballast wire.....

If you just tape it up you lose this cold start facility, but it is a simple job to wire in a relay to perform the same function for a fiver.

Russ

HI Russ
Learning all the time
How would I test that the solenoid is giving the higher(12v) burst for cranking?
Darren

[GDPR]

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SwissSteve wrote:

I discussed this with the supplier before and their argument is that the combination of the electronic ignition and new hi torque starter motor makes the cold start feature obsolete.

But what, Steve, if you still had your standard points setup? Kind of makes a mess of that argument/excuse!

Darren - stick a voltmeter on the + side of the coil, pull the king lead (coil to distributor HT) out of the distributor cap end, and look for 10.5+ volts while cranking - if you get more than 10.5V then the system is working.

Russ:dude:

[SwissSteve]

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I know.

Where can I pick up a feed whilst cranking to switch the relay?

What should the relay be rated at?

[V8 Rumbler]

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kryten wrote:

SwissSteve wrote:

I discussed this with the supplier before and their argument is that the combination of the electronic ignition and new hi torque starter motor makes the cold start feature obsolete.

But what, Steve, if you still had your standard points setup? Kind of makes a mess of that argument/excuse!

Darren - stick a voltmeter on the + side of the coil, pull the king lead (coil to distributor HT) out of the distributor cap end, and look for 10.5+ volts while cranking - if you get more than 10.5V then the system is working.

Russ:dude:

Russ
With ignition on I get 6.4V when connected to '+' side of coil, whilst cracking it rises to 7.9V. From what you said this isn't good:X Any pointers? I presume I have a dodgy solenoid or dodgy wiring from the solenoid:?
Darren

[GDPR]

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Darren - if you trust your voltmeter, then it shows issues, most likely with either the solenoid internal contact, or a poor connection at the solenoid.

The top end should be pre-crimped into the loom. If you have no problems with starting in the winter, then I wouldn't worry overmuch.....

Russ:dude:

[mjheathcote]

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kryten wrote:

The small wire is designed to bypass the ballast resistor to shove 12v into a 6v coil while cranking to give you a hotter spark for starting. It is achieved by a contact within the solenoid which only makes contact during the cranking phase - some think you can just join it up to the big wire, as after all it is only live while cranking.......WRONG!! What'll happen is the 6v from the coil ballast resistor will backfeed the solenoid and because of the load of the solenoid coil and the ignition coil being powered will fry your wiring loom in the process of frying the ballast wire.....

If you just tape it up you lose this cold start facility, but it is a simple job to wire in a relay to perform the same function for a fiver.

Russ

That makes sense, however the standard ignition wiring also shoves 12v to the coil during cranking, is this achieved also via a terminal on the standard starter?..I recall a small terminal with brown wire.

[GDPR]

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You may be confused with the stray brown that can be left flapping about when you go from battery sensed alternators to machine sensed.

The wire we're referring to is the white/yellow that goes from the small terminal (that frequently would break off incidentally) on the solenoid and is joined to the ballast wire at the coil positive to bypass the ballast when cranking.

If your terminal is missing because of a hi-torque motor, or some animal broke it off, then you just use a relay, the coil energised by the white/red, and from a decent 12v supply to the white/yellow... that way you only get the 12v when the key is turned.

Russ:dude: