Cyl. Head Removal - the old chestnut....

[dasadrew]

I guess I can consider myself no longer a Stag virgin - MY FIRST STUD SNAPPED TODAY! (Not too worried about this one - I've extracted/drilled out/helicoiled worse!)

On the first head, I can't for the life of me budge the centre BOLT. I've searched and searched, but can only find all of the info about corroded studs.

I've tried heat, cold, WD-40, breaker bar, air wrench, leaving it under spanner pressure for 24 hours. No way. I guess I'll Dremel off the head? Just wanted to ask if that is going to lead to more woes...

For the studs, I'm waiting on a Tony Hart extractor. After that fails, I was planning to do the rope trick in the cylinders to try and move the heads. I'll be disassembling the entire engine, so I'm not to worried about causing any undetected damage. Any thoughts?

WEB ENGINE BAY STRIP 18.jpg

[nib]

imported post

On the inlet manifold studs like in your photo just keep applying plus gas and while your at it keep applying lots of it onto the cylinder head studs as well.Keep trying on the I/M stud perhaps tightning with the molegrips then trying to undo but im sure they will come out in the end,just be patient unlike myself.The cylinder heads might be a different story though,theres lots of threads on here about peoples woes trying to get the heads off,mostly successful,the cylinder head removal tool seems to be the quickest and most efficient way of removal if all else fails.

If the studs are as tight as you say like mine were,I would try the two nuts locked together first,keep applying the plus gas before you use the stud extractor as I had gone through two of them without loosening off one stud.

Mark

[dasadrew]

With cylinder head removal tool I presume you mean the Dolomite type rather than the angle brackets and hydraulic jacks?

I too am a great believer in releasing fluid and lots of patience, if possible with the nut/bolt/stud under tension. Many a time things have gone "boinggg" in the night in the garage after 3 or 4 days!

Headremover03.jpg

[nib]

imported post

Dasadrew,if you go onto triumphstag.net forum at the moment there is a thread(last couple of days) which shows variants on the head removal tool.

Mark

[V Mad]

imported post

dasadrew wrote:

On the first head, I can't for the life of me budge the centre BOLT. I've searched and searched, but can only find all of the info about corroded studs.

I've tried heat, cold, WD-40, breaker bar, air wrench, leaving it under spanner pressure for 24 hours. No way. I guess I'll Dremel off the head? Just wanted to ask if that is going to lead to more woes...

Breaking studs is one thing but if you also break a bolt you are in real trouble because the bolt will be at a different angle to the stud hence the head cannot be pushed off. :shock:

[dasadrew]

imported post

V Mad wrote:

dasadrew wrote:

On the first head, I can't for the life of me budge the centre BOLT. I've searched and searched, but can only find all of the info about corroded studs.

I've tried heat, cold, WD-40, breaker bar, air wrench, leaving it under spanner pressure for 24 hours. No way. I guess I'll Dremel off the head? Just wanted to ask if that is going to lead to more woes...

Breaking studs is one thing but if you also break a bolt you are in real trouble because the bolt will be at a different angle to the stud hence the head cannot be pushed off. :shock:

Oh ****! That's exactly the info I wanted, but didn't want to hear

[mad cyclist]

imported post

nothinig is insurmountable... take a few days off from the problem and sometimes it seems clearer.

personally and i have done this job, i would sort the bolt first its shorter and easier to get out with an easiout,

drilling down into the offending head stud and then an esaiout on that too.
once you have done these two there is nothing on the car that will seem difficult.
good luck.

ps i tried the rope trick...did not work.

[V Mad]

imported post

As Nick says take each step at a time. The fewer studs you snap the better. If you only snap one stud, and also snap a bolt, it may still be possible; you may be able to lift the head just enough to get a hacksaw on the broken stud, then the rest is easy.

A tip for the studs: degrease the threads before using the extractor. This makes the thread locking more secure and save spoiling the tool.

Good luck.

[alan_thomas]

imported post

Call me 'tight fisted' but I cannot see the point of the 'stud extractor' tools to remove head studsover the 2 nuts locked together method. I generally tighten 2 nuts on the top of the stud, I lock them together as tight as I can (and thats very tight!) but make sure the 'points' of the nuts line up together or equally apart so that a 12 pointed socket goes over both nuts. I then use a long bar about 40cm and 'feel' the stud start to twist. Feeling the stud begin to twist is quite different to feeling it begin to move and you need to stop the torque after just a few degrees od twist.Hopefully, this way,you can apply the max torque within shearing the stud. 'Shock' loads are most likely to shear the stud and ones that refuse to budge get the tighten/untighten treatment with plenty of 'Plusgas' (its the only penetrating fluid that I would ever buy) days and even weeks can pass soaking and rocking the stud until it gives but in the last 2 engines I have done I have not broken a stud.

Of course using 2 nuts locked nuts together can still produce enough torque to shear the stud so why would you waste money on a stud extractor?

- Alan

[Arbman Al]

imported post

Hi Alan,

How is it going? back on the road soon?

Al.

[NickA]

imported post

alan_thomas wrote:

Call me 'tight fisted' but I cannot see the point of the 'stud extractor' tools to remove head studsover the 2 nuts locked together method. I generally tighten 2 nuts on the top of the stud, I lock them together as tight as I can (and thats very tight!) but make sure the 'points' of the nuts line up together or equally apart so that a 12 pointed socket goes over both nuts. I then use a long bar about 40cm and 'feel' the stud start to twist. Feeling the stud begin to twist is quite different to feeling it begin to move and you need to stop the torque after just a few degrees od twist.Hopefully, this way,you can apply the max torque within shearing the stud. 'Shock' loads are most likely to shear the stud and ones that refuse to budge get the tighten/untighten treatment with plenty of 'Plusgas' (its the only penetrating fluid that I would ever buy) days and even weeks can pass soaking and rocking the stud until it gives but in the last 2 engines I have done I have not broken a stud.

Of course using 2 nuts locked nuts together can still produce enough torque to shear the stud so why would you waste money on a stud extractor?

- Alan

Pretty much my thinking; except I use three nuts

[Arbman Al]

imported post

NickA wrote:

alan_thomas wrote:

Call me 'tight fisted' but I cannot see the point of the 'stud extractor' tools to remove head studsover the 2 nuts locked together method. I generally tighten 2 nuts on the top of the stud, I lock them together as tight as I can (and thats very tight!) but make sure the 'points' of the nuts line up together or equally apart so that a 12 pointed socket goes over both nuts. I then use a long bar about 40cm and 'feel' the stud start to twist. Feeling the stud begin to twist is quite different to feeling it begin to move and you need to stop the torque after just a few degrees od twist.Hopefully, this way,you can apply the max torque within shearing the stud. 'Shock' loads are most likely to shear the stud and ones that refuse to budge get the tighten/untighten treatment with plenty of 'Plusgas' (its the only penetrating fluid that I would ever buy) days and even weeks can pass soaking and rocking the stud until it gives but in the last 2 engines I have done I have not broken a stud.

Of course using 2 nuts locked nuts together can still produce enough torque to shear the stud so why would you waste money on a stud extractor?

- Alan

Pretty much my thinking; except I use three nuts

I used your tip Nick, of three nuts, and all my studs came out with no snappages:dude::dude::dude:

[Gresley]

imported post

The head will come off eventually, believe me!! I had head gasket failure last May and my heads had been on for 21 years. I only manged to get a grand total of two studs out, even with the extractorI thought that the job was going to be impossible and that I was beaten, but with a lot of help from the forum - for which I am very grateful - four days (!) later both heads were off. Don't worry, it will move enough for you to saw the studs off. If you do a search on 'head stud removal' you will see the thread. Well worth reading the advice I was given.

Brian

[alan_thomas]

imported post

Arbman Al wrote:

Hi Alan,

How is it going? back on the road soon?

Al.

Al, Will be some time yet as, for the last monthI was forced into 'bathroom renovation mode' and this coincided with Roland eventually finishing my machining.

Good news thoughthe engineis ready to assemble!

Happy new year - Alan

[Giles]

imported post

alan_thomas wrote:

I was forced into 'bathroom renovation mode'

got a horrible feeling that is not far off for me :shock:been ignoring it for sometime now