Manual handbrake adjusters

[Ritchie6]

Just got my car through the MOT this morning. I didn't expect any problems but it does seem to struggle a bit with the handbrake test. Both rolling road dials read just over 100 which the tester said was just efficient enough but I wondered about the possibility of changing to manual adjusters. Anybody made this change and what was involved in doing a conversion? Whose parts did you use?

Richard

[v8ken]

Hi Richard,
I replaced with remanufactured original ones from Rimmers,I think they were the same as the ones fitted to the rover SD1,that was about 3 years ago and they're still good.
Ken.

[Ritchie6]

hi Ken, thanks for the prompt reply. Just had a quick look at Rimmers site and the ones you mentioned for the SD1 look very similar to the Stag adjusters. However I wondered if it was possible to do away with self adjusters altogether and go back to the old fashioned ones that I used adjust with the square spanner. I never had any bother with these on other older cars .

Richard

[Goldstar]

Just a thought, they are often fitted the wrong way round so that the "teeth" don't hold if you get my drift. Worth checking that they are put together the right way round, mine work a treat. If you search on here, helpful ex-member Julian Leyton once posted a pic of right way/wrong way if you need it.

[Ritchie6]

Just a thought, they are often fitted the wrong way round so that the "teeth" don't hold if you get my drift. Worth checking that they are put together the right way round, mine work a treat. If you search on here, helpful ex-member Julian Leyton once posted a pic of right way/wrong way if you need it.

Thanks for the tip. I'll have a look next time I take the wheel off but I think it's unlikely. It seems that the near-side handbrake operation is worse than the off-side. The previous owner was a chap called John Whittaker who was very well known around the Lancs area as somewhat of a "Stag Wizard" so presumably he would be clued up on such things. However it doesn't hurt to check does it?

Richard

[richardthestag]

setting up adjusters and handbrake needs some thought. I do it like this every time with 100% success rate so far and excellent handbrake

I am assuming that the components of the adjuster are correctly fitted and in good order.

disconnect handbrake cable from one back plate
remove drum - while you are at it check slave cylinder for leaks etc etc
move adjuster so that the brake shoes are at minimum diameter .
refit drum and securing screws
stamp on brake pedal and listen to the satisfying zzzzzzzip as the adjuster adjusts.
Repeat on the second side
then set the handbrake cable and adjust it.

Also I have found to bleed the rear brakes properly I also disconnect one end of the handbrake cable from the backplate before bleeding, repeat the auto adjuster baseline and readjust the handbrake cable.

[Lingen]

Richard.The new rear brake adjusters which are readily available, were remanufactured with SOCTFL funding, and are made to a very high specification. It is essential that the handbrake levers are fully retracted for the adjusters to set up properly, and this may not be happening if the cable has been over tightened, or the return springs on the shoes are weak.
Alternatively, you can remove the drums and set them up manually one click at as time until the drum will just go back on without binding. This should last for thousands of miles.
Mike

[MandM]

Richard.The new rear brake adjusters which are readily available, were remanufactured with SOCTFL funding, and are made to a very high specification. It is essential that the handbrake levers are fully retracted for the adjusters to set up properly, and this may not be happening if the cable has been over tightened, or the return springs on the shoes are weak.
Alternatively, you can remove the drums and set them up manually one click at as time until the drum will just go back on without binding. This should last for thousands of miles.
Mike

"Alternatively, you can remove the drums and set them up manually one click at as time until the drum will just go back on without binding. This should last for thousands of miles".

That's how I was shown when I was apprentice back in 1976

[Seaking]

A very nice chap (KRYTON) who used to be on this forum who has a wealth of knowledge did post a rear brake plate modification to use manual adjusters. On this forum long ago.

Such a shame.

Cheers Glenn

[Ritchie6]

Many thanks for the hints and advice. I'll certainly check out the operation of the adjuster next time I'm tinkering. It just seems odd that it's mainly the near-side one and the off-side works ok. In the past I've had a couple of big Triumph saloons (PI and a 2500S) and didn't have any handbrake issues and I think they are basically the same set up.

Richard

[marshman]

I agree with Richardthestag and Mike (Lingen). Properly set up the handbrake is good. The "new" brake adjusters (SOCTFL ones) are good. In my opinion the Stag handbrake is very good for a car of that era, far better than many other classics I have owned and worked on. If it is not then there is something wrong - changing to manual adjusters in my opinion is not really a solution. I remember Krytens post about the MGB? adjusters he fitted and was surprised that he went that route rather than sort the issue properly, though I don't think the SOCTFL re-manufactured adjusters were available at the time.

Just a thought, a weeping wheel cylinder or leaking grease seal on the hub bearing can give the symptoms you describe, though it must have only just started as it doesn't need mush to make the brake ineffective, this shows up much more on the handbrake than on the foot brake, I saw this a couple of years ago on my rear brakes, one side had a leak from the hub seal and was useless on the handbrake but foot brake was only a bit down.

Roger

[Ritchie6]

Just a thought, a weeping wheel cylinder or leaking grease seal on the hub bearing can give the symptoms you describe, though it must have only just started as it doesn't need mush to make the brake ineffective, this shows up much more on the handbrake than on the foot brake, I saw this a couple of years ago on my rear brakes, one side had a leak from the hub seal and was useless on the handbrake but foot brake was only a bit down.

Roger

Thanks for you input Roger. I don't have a leaky wheel cylinder, or at least I didn't a few weeks ago when I took up a bit of the slack in the handbrake cable. I also roughed up the shoes and drums with a bit of emery cloth to make sure they weren't too polished.

As soon as we get a bit of decent weather I'll whip the wheel and drum off and see if I can set up the adjusters properly as per the advice I received in previous postings. During the MOT rolling road test both gauges read just over 100 ( the foot brake was about 200 on the rear wheels) and seemed to be balanced but it required a hell of a lot of effort to pull the handbrake lever to achieve this. It certainly doesn't hold on any sort of slope so I tend to leave it in gear.

Richard

[Kithmo]

I don't see how changing or adjusting the automatic adjusters will improve the hand brake if the foot brake test was ok ?
Surely it's something to do with the cable(s) ?

[DJT]

It certainly doesn't hold on any sort of slope so I tend to leave it in gear.

Something I was taught to do every time I left a car unattended. Even more critical with modern cars that have a hand brake operating on rear discs. Hot discs cool down, handbrake becomes less effective. If your car rolls away having been left out of gear, expect no insurance payout and a potential fine.

[marshman]

I don't see how changing or adjusting the automatic adjusters will improve the hand brake if the foot brake test was ok ?
Surely it's something to do with the cable(s) ?

The footbrake operates the hydraulic wheel cylinder which has a linear movement, so the force is the same along the length of travel of the piston. If the shoes are not adjusted to be close to the drum it doesn't matter, the piston will just have to travel further but will apply the same force when it gets there.

The handbrake is operated by two pivoting levers, the handbrake lever itself and the levers which act on the brake mechanism. The radius of the pivot is quite small and is designed to give maximum leverage with the shoes running close to the drum. If the shoes are further away then the levers have to pivot further. As it is not a linear movement but an angluar one the effective linear distance changes with the angle of the lever or in other words the mechanical advantage changes with angle. For a demonstration of this try pushing down on the pedal arm of a bike, It is hard when the pedal is at the top but gets easier as you approach the horizontal where you get maximum advantage. In the handbrake mechanism the distance of movement are quite small as are the radius from pivot to the operating end. This is why it is important to have the shoes correctly adjusted so that the levers are in the optimum position to give maximum leverage. Having the levers in the wrong position (incorrect brake adjustment) can easily halve the force applied to the brakes.

Hope that makes sense.

Roger