Clutch lever movement

[john 4d]

I've just reinstalled engine and gearbox assembly and have got to the point of reinstating the clutch slave cylinder.
Whilst under the gearbox I just waggled the disconnected clutch operating lever by hand and for some reason I was surprised at how little, next to nothing, movement there was. I guess I hadn't given it any thought before, but now I'm concerned as to how much movement there should be?
I expected to be able to move the lever quite a lot, thinking back to when the gearbox was separated and inspecting the thrust bearing carrier's travel along the primary shaft. I don't know, Disconnected,I expected free travel from the point where the thrust bearing makes contact with the clutch spring release fingers back to the gear box 1st seal housing.
Paranoia, maybe but I can't bring myself to continue, with the thought I may have to rip the whole dammed lot out again, because I didn't check the clutch operating fork engagement with the thrust bearing carrier or something.
Can anyone help, soon?
John

[jakesmig]

Doesn't sound as if there is anything amiss, no movement is bad, slight movement is good, large movement is something wrong.

John

[john 4d]

I bit the bullet, after a bit of thought, and decided likewise and continued the rebuild. Just the carbs, exhaust, and juices to go. What a way to spend the longest day.
I hope we're right.
Thanks
John
That works two ways.

[john 4d]

All back together and guess what. Can't change gear. Clutch well bled, lever moves. So what's up?
Shame because the engine is now running sweet as a nut.
I guess I've got some more head scratching and a busy Sunday ahead.
John.

[Kithmo]

Is the lever moving more than you could move it by hand when you press the pedal ?

[Phil S]

an old dodge but may be worth a try , enging off select a gear, clutch pedal down then start the engine with your right foot on the brake. this was a way of freeing a frozen clutch when it had rusted to the flywheel, may not work but worth a try before the spanners come back out.

[StagJonno]

Are you sure the clutch hydraulics have been properly bled? Many have had to unmount the slave to get the bleed nipple uppermost to get all the air out.

[marshman]

Did you split engine and gearbox and fit a new clutch? or has the engine/gearbox just been sitting around for a while with the old clutch. If the later then as Phil S suggests the friction plate could be stuck to the flywheel. If this is the case they can usually be shocked free. My preferred method is to put the rear on axle stands so the rear wheels spin freely. Securely chock the front wheels. Then start in gear, give it a bit of gas and slam the brakes on. Less stress on the starter, though starting in gear can work of it is not to seized (and you have plenty of space!).

Roger

[john 4d]

Kithmo, Phil S and StagJonno,

The system is fully bled.

I can confirm that the lever moves when the clutch pedal is depressed. Apparently as normal. I've drilled a small hole in the bell housing and can also confirm that the fork rotates with the actuating cross shaft. Further investigation with my phone endoscope proved fruitless, with and without a 45° mirror, no control over camera direction, I can't afford those with that control.

The clutch fiction disc could be struck but the whole has just been re-assembled clean, no rust. When the engine is switched off I can move the gear lever to engage all 4 gears and reverse. When the engine is running I'm physically unable to engage any forward gear, when attempting to engage reverse I'm allowed to try but greeted by the sound of unmeshing teeth, so I don't try too hard. Starting the engine in gear at first turn of the starter motor its obvious that the clutch is not released. The car front end is up on axle stands to enable the forgoing examination and I was resigned to that fact that a engine strip out was again on the cards, in favour of removing the gearbox from beneath.

I'll give the 'old dodge' a serious attempt first before going down that route.

Is it possible that during the gearbox assembly, I inadvertently disengaged the actuating fork from the clutch bearing carrier and re-engaged it behind the carrier. see sketch.

bell housing section.jpg
The lever would seem to almost be in the right position, maybe this 'out of position' is what I noticed in the first place? This would still allow lever movement, I suppose, but probably would totally screw up the clutch release, maybe over pressurising the springs perhaps causing a direct engagement with the friction disc?

Any other ideas?
Thanks for your suggestions so far.

John

[Stagdad]

If you have done what you think wouldnt it be the other problem in that it was over compressing the pressure plate making it impossible to fully grip the drive plate not the other way around.

[john 4d]

Possible, I don't know what the clearances are. I was just suggesting that maybe the finger springs were possibly flexed towards the clutch disk perhaps fouling the disk springs?
I don't even know if its possible to assemble the way I suggest.
John

[flying farmer]

Just a thought but did you fit the clutch plate the right way round?

They should be marked flywheel side on one side of the plate, but I have come across one that wasn't marked.

Neil

[john 4d]

Neil,
As if! Mine is marked in German, strangely, I'm sure I made special note. But when in something like the situation I find myself, I begin to wonder.
John.

[john 4d]

I tried the 'old dodge' today, to no avail I'm afraid. Can a stuck disk really withstand that much shock?
Back to the only option I seem to have left, removing the engine and gearbox again, to discover the fault.
John.

[jakesmig]

Back in the '70's my Stag had a stuck clutch plate that nothing would shift. A pal and I took the box out from underneath and replaced the plate in a couple of hours one lunchtime.