Sump Gasket advice

[simonmetalback]

Advice please, my stag V8 has quite an oil leak from we think the oil sump gasket. Silly question but is this straight forward to do.Does it require any parts to be removed to gain access to all the bolts.
The car is an Standard Triumph engine with a standard auto box.
Thanks

[CJG]

Have a look at this Simon
socforum.com/forum/forum/stag-owners-club/soc-forum/763259-sump-removal

[mole42]

ROM 12.60.44 has the procedure. It's easy enough to remove the front cross-member which makes changing the sump gasket a doddle. However, there are two gotchas:

1. The LH exhaust downpipe needs removing. That may be a pain if the three nuts on the manifold are rusted or if the joint to the front silencer has been crushed with one of those cheap exhaust clamps.

2. The cross-member bolts to the chassis rails on the RH side are an absolute b*st*rd to get out because the spool valve of the steering rack is in the way. They are even worse to get back in.

3. Be prepared to use Helicoils on the front chain cover because the threads are probably stripped.

Best of luck!
Richard

[DJT]

If working on a ramp it is almost as easy to take the auto box out, then you don’t need to drop the crossmember. This is based on the fact that the auto box is much easier to remove than the manual.

[simonmetalback]

ROM 12.60.44 has the procedure. It's easy enough to remove the front cross-member which makes changing the sump gasket a doddle. However, there are two gotchas:

1. The LH exhaust downpipe needs removing. That may be a pain if the three nuts on the manifold are rusted or if the joint to the front silencer has been crushed with one of those cheap exhaust clamps.

2. The cross-member bolts to the chassis rails on the RH side are an absolute b*st*rd to get out because the spool valve of the steering rack is in the way. They are even worse to get back in.

3. Be prepared to use Helicoils on the front chain cover because the threads are probably stripped.

Best of luck!
Richard

Right thanks for that. the dealer I bought the car from is coming down to pick it up and carry out the work.

Thank you for your advice gents.

[richardthestag]

ROM 12.60.44 has the procedure. It's easy enough to remove the front cross-member which makes changing the sump gasket a doddle. However, there are two gotchas:

1. The LH exhaust downpipe needs removing. That may be a pain if the three nuts on the manifold are rusted or if the joint to the front silencer has been crushed with one of those cheap exhaust clamps.

2. The cross-member bolts to the chassis rails on the RH side are an absolute b*st*rd to get out because the spool valve of the steering rack is in the way. They are even worse to get back in.

3. Be prepared to use Helicoils on the front chain cover because the threads are probably stripped.

Best of luck!
Richard

you forgot to mention the risk of Tsunami/volcano/any other disaster scenario Richard

I do not seem to recall any of your gotchas, I did slip the rack off it's mounts and intermediate shaft and left it to hang with all hydraulics still connected just forward of the cross member this allowed plenty of access to the o/s inner crossmember bolts.

The cross member itself I recall being pretty straight forwards to remove and replace.

If helicoils are required along the bottom edge of the timing cover a smaller nut and bolt would certainly suffice until the timing cover comes off next time

The only thing I would recommend is stag well seal or something like that along the gasket mating face, keeps the gasket in place when fiddling everything back on, think it was a couple of hours and no swearing - all in

[Davem62]

Having recently done this , there are 2 different thicknesses of gasket, depending who you get them from ,rimmers was paper thin?, but the one from paddocks was substantially thicker and allowed for a better seal if any distortion of the sump due to previous over tightening .
David

[sujitroy]

If helicoils are required along the bottom edge of the timing cover a smaller nut and bolt would certainly suffice until the timing cover comes off next time

in

I used longer bolts put a nut on the end.
Can you use Heli-coils on non blind holes? Wouldn't they thread all the way through?


Sujit

[mole42]

I used longer bolts put a nut on the end.
Can you use Heli-coils on non blind holes? Wouldn't they thread all the way through?


Sujit

Of course you can use them on open holes. Once the insert is in place and the tang snapped off, the Helicoil stays in place even, if as on my car, the screw is removed and replaced more than once… There are other thread repair systems, like the one someone used on a spark plug in my engine, that lock in perfectly.

[richardthestag]

I used longer bolts put a nut on the end.
Can you use Heli-coils on non blind holes? Wouldn't they thread all the way through?


Sujit

yes but make sure that you insert the helicoil from the same side as the bolt goes in, i.e. dont wind the helicoil in from the back. The thread will not be correct and will lock as you try to wind the bolt in.

Don't ask me how I found this little gem out

[simonmetalback]

Thanks to everyone for your sound advice, I have deceided to let the dealer who I bought the car from fix the problem. Spoke to him regarding the oil leak. I picked it up when I viewed car and all they did was nip up the sump bolts.He is picking the car up and fixing it with no cost to me. I have to say he has been a true gent.
Thanks again

[Motorsport Micky]

Thanks to everyone for your sound advice, I have deceided to let the dealer who I bought the car from fix the problem. Spoke to him regarding the oil leak. I picked it up when I viewed car and all they did was nip up the sump bolts.He is picking the car up and fixing it with no cost to me. I have to say he has been a true gent.
Thanks again

"all they did was nip up the sump bolts"

That would be very convenient for him (no removal of sump or front crossmember required) but not necessarily the correct or best long term way to resolve the leak. If you'll read the posts above #7 particularly above you'll see that OVERTIGHTENING the sump can (and does) distorts the steel flange material ...which causes it to leak.
It may be that the sump originally had not been tightened enough (wouldn't we all like a fix as simple as this) but it's likely that the sump had already been distorted (overtightened) by a previous owner or the last time it was replaced so if the sump was then tightened correctly and gently it will then not seal correctly and leak. Hence just "nipping up the sump bolts makes it worse and it won't work.
Keep an eye on this area when he car is returned, it may well start to leak again, if it does you'll have to revert to the correct procedure as itemised above, note that when the sump is removed checking the flanges for distortion with a straight edge will show where the steel has been pulled down overly tight and distorted. This then can be "dressed" ie gently persuaded back into line with a supporting steel strip behind the flange and tapping with a light hammer on the sealing edge reclaiming the straight line of the sump flange which will then seal when fitted with gasket sealer and a new gasket back to the engine and tightened up ONLY to the torque as specified in the manual (16 lbs ft from memory, not very much). Sometimes garages or dealers not familiar with classic British sumps of many makes don't realise that the sump is flimsy and needs to be straight and true before then tightening evenly and gently as described above to seal.

Micky

[mole42]

Nicely said Micky.

Richard

[simonmetalback]

Ok so I took the car out for a 20 mile drive this evening. engine and gear box are running as they should. when I go back I left the engine running and lifted the bonnet to see if I could see any signs of oil coming from any where else. It was less than 2 mins I lay down and looked under the car. I could see oil dripping quite fast from the gear box. moved the car into the garage and put white soak it pads down. It's defo coming from the gear box and lots of it. a tiny amount from the engine sump.because it was so fresh I could see that it was red and not as I thought all engine oil. Once the engine was switched off the drips began to slow and almost stop. The photo shows the amount off transmission fluid after just a couple of minutes with the engine running.
Am I right in thinking this is the main shaft seal in the gear box. I have deceided not to use the car until the dealer has picked it up TfWSKtrMQK+4EkO5Mk70gA.jpg and fixed the problem.

[mole42]

It may be something as simple as an over filled gearbox…