Stag battery

[LAMBRETTLAD]

I have fitted a Bosch S4 027 ,At least 6 years old ,I keep it in good order with a battery conditioner ,when in the garage ,and is ok at the moment
looking to replace with the same possibly in the winter ,Euro car parts and others say Bosch S4 027 isunsuitable ,one site even says not for classic cars ,what am I missing ? Cheers Alex

[bullstarz]

Yuasa say

YOUR BATTERY RESULTS

TRIUMPH STAG 3.0 PETROL (1970-1973)

BHP145BODYCONVERTIBLECAMOHCDRIVERWDFUELPETROLIMPOR TNOPERIOD1970 - 1973SERIESMK 1TYPE3.0VALVESVALVE

YBX1072

Capacity (20hr)72 AhCCA (EN)600 Amps£129.74 (€142.71)

One of the best makes of batteries you'll find the motor spins over a lot quicker on the key. Dont touch any from Euro car part other then the Bosch. I had a Lion battery from them didnt even last a year.

[KOY 23]

£75 from Tanya batteries.

[404ROD]

I have been satisfied with a Bosch battery for many years after problems with other makes. However, I have just replaced it with another Bosch after the old one would no longer turn the engine over. I use the S5 005 which is slightly smaller than yours but has a very similar specification. I chose it because of its size being that the Stag has a very limited space for a battery. Yours is probably a tighter fit but if you have been satisfied with it then I see no problem with replacing it with the same type. Tayna Batteries are very good to deal with.
.

Rod

[tvrgeek]

What is unsuitable is such advice. I just fitted a group 26 but had to slightly modify the inner fender for the bracket as it is not as tall as some others. Search the forum and there is a lot of discussion on sizes. THere is NOTHING special about a classic car or a Stag. Anyone who says so is selling a load of manure, not sound advice. It is a car. It needs a battery. The chemistry is all the same. It has to fit. Nothing else.

A lead acid battery lasts about 7 years max unless abused. Abuse is over charging ( something the old mechanical regulators are famous for) or running it all the way down, something the leaky diodes in Lucas alternators are famous for. There are lots of brands of batteries, but only a few factories. Differences tend to be more advertising or perception, not fact.

[JOHNS]

I have fitted a Bosch S4 027 ,At least 6 years old ,I keep it in good order with a battery conditioner ,when in the garage ,and is ok at the moment
looking to replace with the same possibly in the winter ,Euro car parts and others say Bosch S4 027 isunsuitable ,one site even says not for classic cars ,what am I missing ? Cheers Alex

Just bought one in February from Eurocarparts. Can't understand what the problem is.

[marshman]

I have fitted a Bosch S4 027 ,At least 6 years old ,I keep it in good order with a battery conditioner ,when in the garage ,and is ok at the moment
looking to replace with the same possibly in the winter ,Euro car parts and others say Bosch S4 027 isunsuitable ,one site even says not for classic cars ,what am I missing ? Cheers Alex

Why replace it??? If it has been kept in good condition, properly looked after then it should be OK. I have a Bosch S4 that dates back to 2011 on one car I own, the battery in my wifes Mx5 I only replaced last year and that was 18, yes eighteen, years old. The one in my Passat diesel lasted 12 years. Your money, your choice, but I would wait until it started showing problems.

Roger

[tvrgeek]

MX5 battery is a different physical construction. I do not know the expected lifespan. I do understand standard wet cell batteries. Why change one? Because a battery is a lot cheaper than a tow..
Reminds me if my sister saying the timing belt schedule was a scam and her Caravan was over 90K and the belt was fine. Until Sunday night in the rain on the middle of the Bay Bridge. As you say your money, your choice.

[marshman]

Timing belt is a service item with clearly stated change intervals, madness not to change, consequences of belt failure on. "contact" engine is expensive. Battery is not an item with a stated service life. In the UK most have breakdown cover so worst case is a phone call and a delay to the journey. In my experience batteries usually give an indication they are failing. Sudden failure can affect a battery of any age. Yes I accept the MX5 OE battery is different construction but I also gave examples of others I have that are conventional that are or were well over 6 years old before replacement.

[Phil S]

it's like our cars, we all have slightly different opinions, it's an optima red top for me, high cca and slightly smaller.
go with what has served you well and hope the new one lasts as long.

[tvrgeek]

Life spans follow the bathtub curve. So there are a few infant mortalities, and a few make it to the far end. It can be tempting if you were lucky enough to have one make it to the far end, but the majority will fall into the bottom of the curve. A battery is a maintenance item. That is why the warranty is shorter than the expected life and they have date codes on them. For those intrested: https://www.weibull.com/hotwire/issue21/hottopics21.htm If you drive your car daily, you are less likely to notice the effects of micro-bridging than if you let it sit for a week or longer. Higher density batteries have closer plates, so more susceptible than a cheaper battery of the same size that may have fewer plates. How fast it becomes sulphated depends largely on your alternator or tender. Lots of variables, but they all follow the same laws of physics.

FWIW, the Optima is a glass-mat construction, as is the Miata. As I said, I do not know about their modes of degradation in that technology. It is different from the traditional wet cell plate battery. I only have heard that after Optima was bought out, their quality went way down. Just what is commented on in the MG forum. Some also suggest their charging requirements are different, but others say that is a gimmick to sell you their expensive recharging units. I do not know. Never dealt with them. I did deal with the maintenance schedule of traditional wet cells in out UPS units in computer rooms. Can't get a much better environment. Failure was very expensive, so we replaced earlier than the statistical life span. 5 years.

Tires are another item that degrade with time. A lot of people believe if they look good, they must be good. That is until they have one blow out. 6 or 7 years is the industry recommended life for a tire. If all you do are lightly loaded short trips and no sustained highway, they may last quite a bit longer. Of course, if you put a marginally specified tire on a sport-ute, overload it and don't maintain air pressure, then drive 70 MPH endlessly in the middle of summer, they can fail a lot earlier. Just ask Ford.

[ramjam2005]

it's like our cars, we all have slightly different opinions, it's an optima red top for me, high cca and slightly smaller.
go with what has served you well and hope the new one lasts as long.

Sorry I can't give a recommendation here as my car/shell been moth-balled for years so not had to tackle battery replacement yet.

However,its Like Phil says ...I would have thought Cold Crank capability is an important choice factor with a heavy V8 lump. So with the standard positioning of a battery on the Stag the chosen model needs a balance of best CCA achievable by size constraints and I think its at least a 65ah battery needed.

I took in similar factors when replacing the battery on my MGF last year (because of bonnet clearance it can't be too high)..size was limited but went with the one with best CCA v Size. Turned out to be a Bosch and got a good deal at Costco with Bosch's 4 or 5 year guarantee.

Battery cell technology has moved on since days of the Stag and the massive Lucas battery I have sitting in my Stag ..so quite possible you'll find a more compact battery with all the CCA oomph you could ever need.

[Peter]

Hi, Two key factors in selecting a battery 1. Will it fit in the battery location and 2. Electrical spec.
I’m currently using a 072 battery 680 amps 74 AH which used to be the heavy duty option for the Stag. Battery Megastore now recommends a 335 which has 830 amps and 95 ah but I’ve never fitted one. Your 027 is I think the original type with 540 amps and 60 ah. Can’t see why you couldn’t fit another of you are happy with the performance. A key factor for me is the additional electric load I’m running (fan and EWP). You do usually get some warning before a battery fails (slower to start) but the key issue is how inconvenient would a failure be. I changed the 10 year old one in my daily driver (XF jag) before the winter and before it was left parked for two weeks at an airport, the Stag’s in the garage....

Peter

[marshman]

Life spans follow the bathtub curve. So there are a few infant mortalities, and a few make it to the far end. It can be tempting if you were lucky enough to have one make it to the far end, but the majority will fall into the bottom of the curve. A battery is a maintenance item. That is why the warranty is shorter than the expected life and they have date codes on them. For those intrested: https://www.weibull.com/hotwire/issue21/hottopics21.htm If you drive your car daily, you are less likely to notice the effects of micro-bridging than if you let it sit for a week or longer. Higher density batteries have closer plates, so more susceptible than a cheaper battery of the same size that may have fewer plates. How fast it becomes sulphated depends largely on your alternator or tender. Lots of variables, but they all follow the same laws of physics.

FWIW, the Optima is a glass-mat construction, as is the Miata. As I said, I do not know about their modes of degradation in that technology. It is different from the traditional wet cell plate battery. I only have heard that after Optima was bought out, their quality went way down. Just what is commented on in the MG forum. Some also suggest their charging requirements are different, but others say that is a gimmick to sell you their expensive recharging units. I do not know. Never dealt with them. I did deal with the maintenance schedule of traditional wet cells in out UPS units in computer rooms. Can't get a much better environment. Failure was very expensive, so we replaced earlier than the statistical life span. 5 years.

Tires are another item that degrade with time. A lot of people believe if they look good, they must be good. That is until they have one blow out. 6 or 7 years is the industry recommended life for a tire. If all you do are lightly loaded short trips and no sustained highway, they may last quite a bit longer. Of course, if you put a marginally specified tire on a sport-ute, overload it and don't maintain air pressure, then drive 70 MPH endlessly in the middle of summer, they can fail a lot earlier. Just ask Ford.

Bathtub curve applies to just about everything, not battery specific!!

Never said batteries are not a maintenance item, I said (or at least meant to say - sorry if I was not clear), they are not specified on the service schedule to be changed after x years or miles like timing belts/chains, filters, fluids etc. They do need checking physically/visually and if you can electrically - state of charge, specific gravity if not sealed (most if not all now are so not really relevant), internal resistance to give an idea of its current (pun intended) capability (CCA) and if you really want to go to town a full discharge/charge to determine its remaining AH capacity - (Coulomb counting!). I stand by my original comment if the battery seems OK, starts the car well, holds its charge etc, why change it just for the sake of it? From the bathtub curve you referred to a new battery has a higher chance of failure than one someway into its service life - the difficulty is knowing where the battery is in its life, but as I said older batteries tend to give warning signs before they let you down.

AGM batteries (as fitted to MX5/Miata and many cars fitted with Start/Stop "technology) can require different/specific chargers as they are sensitive to overcharging - you can use a "normal" charger provided you monitor its charging progress and disconnect as soon as it is charged - but they will not do a nice long cell equalisation charge. A conventional flooded lead acid is "happy" with a normal car charging at a constant 14.4 volts (or whatever it is), however AGMs must be reduced to a "float" of 13.5 - 13.8V (2.25v to 2.3v per cell) otherwise their life is seriously shortened - the charging system of the MX5 (and other cars) does this. They are also not very tolerant of higher temperatures hence why most if not all in car applications see them mounted in the boot away from the heat of the engine.

UPS batteries are a different application all together, a UPS's sole function is to provide back up power so failure is not an option - it must work - car doesn't start is a nuisance, a company serever going down costs ££££ (or $$$$$ ). As far as I am aware a decent UPS will selftest battery performance/capacity on a regular basis and flag failing batteries, and yes battery replacement is recommended every 3 - 5 years.

On the subject of tyres I totally agree - far too many front wheel drive cars - especially smaller hatchbacks - that have had several new pairs of front tyres have rears that are over 10 years old with cracked side walls "but they are OK 'cos they still have loads of tread"



Getting back on track to the original post - Bosch S4 seem a solid reliable battery as do Varta. Halfords Advanced are good as well. Not so impressed with Lion batteries from Eurocarparts, but then they are cheaper! "Calcium Technology" batteries tend to tolerate "lack of use" lay ups better, though some insist that they too need a special charger - I disgree on that point

[nigele]

Hi Alex

I had an 027 previously which lasted 12 years, the only problem is the clamp bolts had been modified as they were too long due to the recessed terminals on the 027.
I replaced it with a Varta E24 type 069 which is a tight fit but enables the correct clamps to be used. The Varta E23 type 068 has the terminals reversed if you want to keep the positive terminal away from the power steering pulley.
I believe the Varta blue, and Bosch S4 are identical.

Nigel